Obama, concern for the UK or US?

[ProfessorPreciseaBug]

Listening to Obama, I was struck that his language seemed to be about what is good for the US not what is good for the UK. Certainly the former US treasury secretary interviewed on the Today program was very US centric.

His comment about us going to the back of the queue, (and he did say queue instead of line because he was told to) seemed to be a bit of a threat. Is he out of order?

Mistigri - no of course the UK would not set out to sink passing ships at random in a warlike manner.

However, the UK can prevent passage of ships or cargo from nations that may wish to do us harm. It is the ability to do that 'if necessary and with relevant UN authority' that gives us power.

Obama is entitled to his opinion. Just vote how you want!

Yep. Everyone is telling us to stay in to prop up other countries, either with our money, or our influence.

The first responsibility of any Government is to do the best for the country it governs. Paying vast amounts of money and ceding sovereignty to a foreign power in order to 'prop up other countries' may be in their interests but is not in ours.

Ad stop being so gloomy about the possibility of getting another labour Govt. Cameron is hated. Many in his own party cannot wait to remove him. He was elected this time because he promised a referendum. When that referendum is over people will have very little cause to vote for him.

Labour just needs to get its act together and it could well be in again

You saw Call Me Dave's peregrination across Europe. He did more air miles than a migrating swallow and ingratiated himself with every bureaucrat from Bratislava to Benidorm, and what did he get for it, what deal did they offer the frequent flyer? Naff all. As Boris put it bluntly and honestly, they told him "to bog off" when he asked if he could control our borders. That is how they treated him, they told him to sit on it, and he duly did.

If we were independent, they would treat us with more respect than he was granted as he journeyed day and night from capital to capital and returned empty-handed with nothing but a flea in his ear and a pat on his head.

He is entitled to his opinion, but I really wish he'd butt out of something that is none of his business. How do you think it would go down if David Cameron went over to the US and told Americans how they should be voting in the presidential elections in November? I can tell you right now it would go down like a shit sandwich, because its none of his damn business how Americans choose to vote. And its none of Mr Obama's business how Brits choose to vote either.

However, the UK can prevent passage of ships or cargo from nations that may wish to do us harm. It is the ability to do that 'if necessary and with relevant UN authority' that gives us power.

Very true.

being able to defend yourself and your interests is one of the tests that actually makes you a sovereign country.

Once this man gets his ay we will lose our ability to act independently. Then we'll be at the mercy of the EU - as Greece discovered.

www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/08/jean-claude-juncker-calls-for-eu-army-european-commission-miltary

' How do you think it would go down if David Cameron went over to the US and told Americans how they should be voting in the presidential elections in November?'

Hillary would love it, I think, and it may yet happen as all the world's leaders are told to help stop Trump. Some of he American public wouldn't like it, just as some of the British public doesn't, but the US Establishment would like it as much as Cameron and our Establishment does.

I don't blame Obama, I am sure he was begged to help and felt he had to do so.

However, the UK can prevent passage of ships or cargo from nations that may wish to do us harm. It is the ability to do that 'if necessary and with relevant UN authority' that gives us power.

And you seriously think that a country not wanting to sign a trade agreement with the UK would give you the right, under international law, to block the passage of merchant ships through international waters, or through waters controlled by another state? If so, you are utterly deluded.

What makes you think they'll start voting in the national interest after leaving the EU?

The Tories may have benefited from people who wouldn't normally vote for them, who voted Tory in 2015 because they were the only party offering a referendum on the EU. It doesn't mean they'll vote Tory after a Brexit.

UK trade counts for 2.9% of US total trade.

And yet the UK has the fifth largest economy in the world. If we leave the EU we're also free to make our own trade deals with non-EU countries, and will regain our seat at the World Trade Organisation.

We should be asking whether the eu would actually function in its same form if we left, as we are the 5th largest economy in the world - a large chunk of the EU's overall economy.

Other countries may follow us.

The loss of £350million will mean the EU has less money to throw around. It may not be able to buy as much popularity as it does at present.

Frankly, the whole Obama support is no big deal at all. Every leader in the world (all of the club) will say we should stay in, Hillary and everyone else. Only Trump couldn't give a stuff either way.

Boris and Farage should have thanked Obama for his input and then said that Cameron needs all the help he can get and that Obama doesn't understand the issues and nor does Cameron and left it at that. It would all have blown over and had no impact.

I expect the trained and tutored spin teams in the Remain side will drip feed us weekly endorsements of world leaders, assorted bigwigs and of course, pop stars, supporting Cameron in order to convince us and then they will bring out the piece de resistance, their ultimate rabbit from the hat, the final card up their sleeve, former Labour leader, Gordon Bennett.

The Brexit team should prepare to mock each announcement as it arrives.

Mistigri - the point is we have power beyond our shores. Go and look at the deal we have with the US on Diego Garcia. I know it s controversial but the US navy has a huge presence there with a British military commander in charge of the Chagos archipelago.

The US has military personnel in the UK. The US projects power across the Middle East mainly because of its relationship with the UK mainly because its aircraft take off from the UK and Diego Garcia and its aircraft carriers pass via Gibralter.

If any other nation controlled those strategic points the US would not have the freedom to act that it does.

I think the Uk needs to remind the US that being 'back of the queue for a trade deal' doesn't speak of a close relationship where US military personnel use our islands for their bases. The special relationship is a phrase I hate but a normal relationship between friendly nations is a two way street not a right to be abused and used as the US pleases.

I see Hilary Clinton has already come out to 'nuance' the message. I think US diplomats will be working behind the scenes. Obama clearly has an issue with Britain because of his Kenyan heritage and I don't think that will be allowed to damage the US - UK relationship.

If Boris replaces Dave I am sure he will negotiate a more grown up relationship wth all our allies in US and EU.

Obama has been a bonus for BREXIT. Some many people telling me it has swayed them to vote OUT.

One chap said that being sent to the back of the queue implied that you had been naughty, or caught cheating and that to imply we are so for exercising our democrat right is simply disgusting, That swayed him to vote LEAVE.

It would be funny if Dave's big gun turned out to have shot himself in the foot

If you want 'true' independent advice, ask someone who used to do the job and who has already obtained their knighthood / ennoblement.

They tend not to be toadies.

And I stlil don't understand why someone who evidently detests the Tories is willing to support Cameron by voting for his recommendation to stay in the EU. You are prolonging your own misery as if we LEAVE the EU he will be chucked out by his party the next day.

Because many people are grown ups who prefer to make important decisions based on the substance of the issues rather than playground 'Sally likes x thing so I can't like that because I don't like Sally' nonsense?

Because many people are grown ups who prefer to make important decisions based on the substance of the issues rather than playground 'Sally likes x thing so I can't like that because I don't like Sally' nonsense?

No, it cannot be dismissed that easily. it's a fundamental flaw in the logic that should be brought to bear on a complex problem.

No, it cannot be dismissed that easily. it's a fundamental flaw in the logic that should be brought to bear on a complex problem

It really isn't. It's far too important and lasting a decision for short term political considerations to be a factor for most rational people. To vote in this referendum based on the individual personalities of individual Conservative MPs, some of whom won't be in power in five years' time, would be deeply illogical.

I don't care about the personalities backing either side. I care about the issues and the weight of evidence sitting behind those issues. Therefore I care about what the US would be likely to do in the case of Brexit. The current US president, along with his likely successors, gives useful evidence on that point.

Uhh, he isn't telling anyone what to do, he was simply saying (after first stating that it is obviously a decision for the British public) that any claims the leave campaign is making regarding maintaining trade deals with the likes of the United States are not necessarily true, outlining what US policy would be regarding the UK in the event of a vote for brexit.

wispasmas - being sent to the 'back of the queue' on trade deals was a pure threat and nothing more nor less.

It is not the way a close ally speaks and it will I think annoy a lot of people in the UK and perhaps make people who were wavering now think of voting Brexit.

wispasmas - being sent to the 'back of the queue' on trade deals was a pure threat and nothing more nor less.

Why can't it just be a simple statement of fact, confirming the US position of prioritising multilateral rather than bilateral trade deals?

Also important here is the language used. Obama didn't talking about 'sending' the UK anywhere, just stated where we'd be on the current list of priorities for trade deals. Might get one in the future, right now we'd be at the back of the queue.

Just as we certainly wouldn't take into consideration what's best for the US in deciding how to vote in the referendum, despite the 'special relationship', it would be unreasonable of them to put the UK's welfare above their own.

Jassy - the priority might change somewhat if their B1, B2, B52, F16 still want to land in the UK.

Many large US corporations have offices in the UK. The major US banks operate out of London which is the centre of global financial markets linking Asia with the US.

The UK has a variety of issues, not just trade agreements, to discuss with the US on a daily basis. The idea that somehow the US can ignore us on trade and expect us to cooperate on other issues is laughable. What it needs is a PM who is willing to say 'no' occasionally and mostly 'yes that's fine but here is what we want in return' .

I mean, if a bunch of housewives can get their heads round the notion that "line" and "queue" mean the same thing

What a bizarre thing to say.
A bunch of housewives being who exactly?

HQ offices can move in the morning, no problem. Things change and the market does what is expedient.

The "back of the queue" lines seems as if it has been dreamt up by a team of wonks in order to try and scare the public who have dared to vote for Brexit. When you analyse it, it is evident that it is a trick.

How long is this queue? It has 2 elements - the EU and Britain, so the back of the queue is 2nd place behind the EU which is no big deal because the US is suposed to be finalising a TTIP deal with the EU soon and after that we can have a deal without TTIP.

It is not as if we are in a queue of 20 behind Mozambique, Nicaragua, Ecuador etc etc, we are just behind the EU.