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Obama, concern for the UK or US?

368 replies

ProfessorPreciseaBug · 23/04/2016 08:15

Listening to Obama, I was struck that his language seemed to be about what is good for the US not what is good for the UK. Certainly the former US treasury secretary interviewed on the Today program was very US centric.

His comment about us going to the back of the queue, (and he did say queue instead of line because he was told to) seemed to be a bit of a threat. Is he out of order?

OP posts:
AnnaForbes · 02/05/2016 21:04

Greenpeace have got their hands on leaked documents from the TTIP trade talks. Small wonder this deal is discussed in secret, its agenda suits USA very well (thanks Obama) and shits on us.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36185746

There are fears that big US corporations could put excessive legal pressure on some EU states. The threat of being sued could have a "chilling" effect on legislators, forcing them to water down welfare protections, critics argue.

www.theguardian.com/business/2016/may/01/leaked-ttip-documents-cast-doubt-on-eu-us-trade-deal

Some conclusions regarding consumer and environmental protections from the Greenpeace website today:

Long standing environmental protections appear to be dropped
This 70 y/o rule of the World Trade Organization allows nations to regulate trade “to protect human, animal and plant life or health" or for "the conservation of exhaustible natural resources" It is omitted from TTIP suggesting the agreement will place profit ahead of health and life.

Climate protection will be harder under TTIP
Nothing indicating climate protection can be found in the documents. It appears to not be a priority.

The end of the precautionary principle
The US demands a ‘risk based’ approach that aims to manage hazardous substances rather than avoid them. For example, hormone disrupting chemicals.

Opening the door for corporate takeover

And that's just those regarding consumer and environmental protection. There is so much more. all very, very bad for us.

I feel evangelical about the horrors of TTIP. It wont be dropped, we need to leave.

claig · 02/05/2016 21:30

The EU are rushing to try and get TTIP passed before Obama leaves because if Trump gets in, it could be all over for TTIP.

AnnaForbes · 02/05/2016 22:45

Even people who want to stay in the EU dont know what to do about TTIP. When I bring it up on referendum threads, its either ignored or dismissed Hmm

Claig, Im not very well informed about US politics, why will Trump ditch TTIP?

claig · 02/05/2016 22:51

Trump is against all the free trade deals like NAFTA and the Asian TPP. He hasn't mentioned TTIP, but it is similar to TPP. He has said he will scrap TPP. He doesn't like free trade deals because they have led to loss of American jobs; they suit the banks and the corporations, but he wants jobs back in the US.

Trump is in favour of US sovereignty and not international trade deals policed by international treaties etc.

Trump is against globalism and for the nation state which is why the entire EU political class is frightened as hell of Trump and what he will mean for the whole lot of them and for the EU.

However, no one really knows what Trump will do and it is always possible that he will fold and not go through with what he is saying. However, I think that is unlikely and he really is the EU's worst nightmare.

SpringingIntoAction · 02/05/2016 22:53

Anna

I started a new thread about TTIP earlier today in the EU Referendum 2016 section. It would be useful if you copied your post about Greenpeace etc onto that thread.

claig · 02/05/2016 23:07

All the stooges are frightened as hell

"TTIP talks need swift progress to avoid Trump threat"

www.euractiv.com/section/trade-society/news/ttip-talks-need-swift-progress-to-avoid-trump-threat/

AnnaForbes · 02/05/2016 23:35

Thank you for the link Claig. I'll have a read of it in bed tonight. What do you think Trump's chances are of winning the Presidential election?

Springing, I''ll find your thread. TTIP needs to be kept in the public eye.

KateInKorea · 03/05/2016 01:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Want2bSupermum · 03/05/2016 04:24

I think Obama has shown the cold shoulder to the UK throughout his term. Cameron has been too weak to call him on it. Quite frankly the U.S. would have a hell of a time in the middle east if it wasn't for the UK. The military base in Cyprus is key for their operations being supported.

Trump has made clear he would work much more closely with allies. Reading between the lines that's working with UK and Poland. It's too early to say if Trump can win the nomination let alone the election. The economy is going to play a huge role in deciding what happens. We are in for a heck of an adjustment. It's started here in the US with many companies not reporting good results. Layoffs have started too. People are questioning why so many H1B visas when we have qualified people here.

claig · 03/05/2016 06:51

Anna, I think Trump is going to win and become President, and then the fun will begin. The EU is on its last legs, even if Cameron and his team manage to keep us in. The whole world is changing and returning to national sovereignty. The time of the bigwigs and bureaucrats lording it over us is coming to an end.

KateInKorea · 03/05/2016 07:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

claig · 03/05/2016 07:59

It wasn't national sovereignty that led to those wars, it was power machinations among elites. If we become an independent, sovereign country once again and the teams lose their attempt to keep us in the EU, then we won't be going to war with anyone. In fact, there is more danger of world war by bureaucrats on steroids with delusions of grandeur and empire in an EU block with a coming EU army. Individual countries are more realistic and pragmatic, but an empire run by a bunch of entitled bureaucrats from a central location without the restraint brought on them by the democratic will of the people is more likely to risk war.

'what they want 'back' is not obviously any better than what we've got'

It is better to have democracy and rule by the people than rule by a bunch of busybodies and bureaucrats on expenses and under the dictat of the bankers who ride roughshod over democracy as they did in Greece, and who arbitrarily let in 1 million migrants without asking any of the people.

claig · 03/05/2016 08:12

The grandiose dreams of these bureaucrats, busybodies and servants of the bankers is finally coming to an end and the people will reinstate democracy.

"How a Brexit could save Europe from itself
...
The eurozone is broken, and another, far greater economic crisis inevitable. The next trigger could be a fiscal meltdown in Italy, or another banking collapse, or a political implosion in Spain or France, or another global recession. Nobody can be sure what the proximate cause will be – but there will be one, and the fallout will be turmoil of a far greater magnitude than anything we saw in Greece. At the same time, the tensions fuelled by the migration crisis will grow relentlessly, especially if hundreds of thousands or even millions of people are settled across the continent over the next few years.
...
Democracy, the term, is derived from the ancient Greek: it denotes a system whereby the people (dêmos) are in power or in which they rule (krátos). One cannot, by definition, have a genuine democracy in the absence of a people; and there is no such thing as a European demos. The French are a people; the Swiss are a people, even though they speak multiple languages; the Americans are a people
...
Given that there can be no meaningful Euro-democracy any time soon, the only other logical solution would be to ditch the very idea of rule of the people, embrace a radical fiscal and political centralisation of the eurozone, and entrust power to unelected bureaucrats.
...
But the public would rightly reject such nonsense: the real problem is that the people have too little, rather than too much, power. The next European treaty, which will represent another integrationist leap when it is eventually drawn up, will be an almost impossible sell."

www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/03/09/how-a-brexit-could-save-europe-from-itself/

As the teams, the wonks, the busybodies, the bureaucrats, the "bought and paid for" and the servants of the bankers become ever more desperate as they see their master plan fail in the face of the people's wish for democracy, they will resort to their final flourish, to remove our democracy, to impose trade treaties like TTIP on us without asking our opinion.

The teams are on their last legs and the EU is crumbling, let's give it a final kick and end the rotting corrupt undemocratic bullying bureaucratic behemoth. Let's restore democracy and tell the teams to push off.

claig · 06/05/2016 07:25

Never mind what Obama said next to a desperate Cameron, now there is a real gamechanger.Trump has his say

"Now Trump says the United Kingdom is 'better off without' Europe
...
"He said: 'I know Great Britain very well,' the real estate tycoon said. 'I know – you know – the country very well. I have a lot of investments there.

'I would say that they're better off without it. But I want them to make their own decision.'

He added: 'I think the migration has been a horrible thing for Europe. A lot of that was pushed by the EU.

'I would say that they're better off without it, personally, but I'm not making that as a recommendation. Just my feeling.'

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3576151/Now-Trump-says-United-Kingdom-better-without-Europe-just-days-insisting-won-t-Britain-advice-looming-Brexit-vote-Obama-wrong-sides.html

claig · 15/05/2016 16:46

Trump today. oor Cameron, this has done 'im up like a kipper.

"Donald Trump: Brexit would not put UK at back of queue with US

Tycoon, on track to win presidential nomination, says it would not matter to him if a country was in the EU or not"
...
Asked if he would back Trump, Farage, who has said he shares concerns about an out-of-touch political class with the American, implied he would do so, but reluctantly.

“I have difficulty with that,” Farage told Peston. “Let’s put it like this, I couldn’t vote for [Hillary Clinton] even if you paid me.

“If you put me up against a wall it would be [Trump] not Hillary, but I have reservations. Encouraging people to beat up protesters, one or two things like that bother me, but look, I tell you what, I think he’s going to win.”

www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/15/eu-referendum-donald-trump-brexit-uk-back-queue-us

Et tu Farage? What a useless bunch of politicians we have got. Even Farage is useless.

claig · 16/05/2016 07:58

Trump speaks the truth yet again. This is the exact opposite of what Cameron would have wanted.

"When asked about Britain's membership of the EU, Trump said: "I've dealt with the European Union, it's very very bureaucratic, it's very very difficult.

"In terms of Britain I would say 'what do you need it for'?

"But again, let people make up their own mind."

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/donald-trump-slams-sadiq-khan-7979055

Winterbiscuit · 16/05/2016 13:05

"In terms of Britain I would say 'what do you need it for'?

That's it in a nutshell Grin

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