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Labour and anti-semitism

999 replies

LeLaluifleur · 10/04/2016 09:15

Apologies for DF links but ignoring the lowbrow style 'journalism' for a minute, I am perturbed about these reports.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3531852/Labour-councillor-20-suspended-claims-called-Hitler-greatest-man-history-latest-anti-Semitic-scandal-hit-Corbyn-s-party.html#comments

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3532042/Ignorant-Godless-Hateful-Corbyn-s-contempt-Jews-disgrace-withering-attack-Labour-leader-donor-backed-party-400-000-2015-Election.html

I like Corbyn a little bit but judge his cavalier attitude to anti-semitism harshly.

Has anti-semitism become cool among labour supporters or something? What is being done about the anti-semitism coming from some labour politicians and how to deal with the Islamist flavour of anti-semitism as displayed by Labour councillor Aysegul Gurbuz (and others) for examples who posted statements such as this on twitter :

"Ed Miliband is Jewish. He will never become prime minister of Britain."
"Adolf Hitler was praised as the ‘greatest man in history".

Shock Sad

OP posts:
TheNewStatesman · 21/04/2016 02:57

It can't be a nice feeling when the Powers That Be seem to be increasingly sliding into antisemitism (Corbyn & friends, a lot of people in the Swedish government etc.)

If I were Jewish I'd be considering getting out of Europe.

Remember, folks: what starts with the Jews seldom ends with them.

Anseladams · 21/04/2016 07:13

"If I were Jewish I'd be considering getting out of Europe. "

Well, women can follow suit, seeing that our rights are steadily and sneakily being undermined in Europe (Cologne, Labour party gender segregation, Trans politics).

Helmetbymidnight · 21/04/2016 09:29

I don't think there's any need to panicmonger.

I also don't think the election of Malia says anything much except that students are often quite immature and like to kick at (their perception of) the establishment. I hope she is realising how stupid her remarks on ISIS are and I expect her to backtrack on them.

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/04/introducing-the-new-nus-president-who-wouldnt-condemn-isis/

Anseladams · 21/04/2016 09:53

How ironic:

Malia:
"‘We recognise that condemnation of Isis appears to have become a justification for war and blatant Islamophobia. This rhetoric exacerbates the issue at hand and in essence is a further attack on those we aim to defend.’"

Can't she see her won limited and hypocritical thinking? Replace 'Islamophobia' with 'anti-semitism' and you get something like this:

"‘We recognise that condemnation of the state of Israel appears to have become a justification for terror and blatant anti-semitism. This rhetoric exacerbates the issue at hand and in essence is a further attack on those we aim to defend.’"

MyBeloved · 21/04/2016 10:26

Malia is 28, not some silly child. She should be held accountable. This is not just scaremongering. It is another layer, upon another layer, upon another layer.....

Those students who voted her in would have had years of education about the holocaust.

I myself am seriously weighing up my options for my family's future in Europe.

claig · 21/04/2016 10:27

'I don't think there's any need to panicmonger. '

I agree because the whole tide is about to change.

This whole situation has arisen due to the culture of victimhood and grievance fostered deliberately by left wing organisations and media outlets which have championed and given voice to the minority over the majority. The left used it as a tactic to pressure the common sense centre of society and their TV news outlets played along and you now can't turn the TV news on without large segments of grievance and victimhood politics disguised as "diversity" and "inclusion", fawned over by the metropolitan news commentators. It has got out of control to the extent that our news organisations now give voice to insulting rubbish about "white privilege" etc and where these grievance activists have been encouraged in their politically correct "inclusive" politics to exclude the majority and to intimidate people from speaking up if they have a different view such as Germaine Greer and Julie Bindel over trans issues or Jewish student societies over Israel, so that we now get these entitled grievance activists demanding safe spaces for themselves so that they can shut out free speech.

"Whether it’s safe space advocates proposing motions to ban free speech societies or equality officers tweeting ‘kill all white men’, the mood on campus has changed dramatically in the past five years."

"In 2011, Bouatti called Birmingham University ‘a Zionist outpost in British higher education’

Jewish students and societies have as much right to advocate for their views as anyone else in society and the use of "Zionist outpost" seems to me to be an attempt to marginalise their views and the word "outpost" seems to indicate that the grievance activists think they have succeeded by the fact that many dissenting voices no longer exist.

The left has sought to challenge the majority and used grievances, political correctness and "inclusion" to do it, but their inclusion has led to the exclusion of the majority culture and to the increasing confidence of some factions in their exclusion of voices they dislike such as people they term "Zionists".

This politically correct "inclusion" politics championed by the left and the media and the metropolitan elite has backfired and is slowly removing the rights and freedoms of the majority and is attempting to marginalise the free speech and views of Jewish students as well as shown in the disgusting situation below

"This year I witnessed a child of mine getting up to speak at a political meeting at a leading university only to see the argument drowned out by hooligan white male students shouting: ‘Zio, Zio, Zio.’

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3532042/Ignorant-Godless-Hateful-Corbyn-s-contempt-Jews-disgrace-withering-attack-Labour-leader-donor-backed-party-400-000-2015-Election.html

and where we have crap like this

"But after this week’s foul-tempered meeting, during which members endorsed a movement which seeks to dismantle the state of Israel, Chalmers — who is not Jewish — decided that enough was enough.

He resigned from OULC saying that ‘the attitudes of certain members of the club towards certain disadvantaged groups was becoming poisonous’. And he didn’t hold back. He offered plenty of examples.

He accused members of the executive of ‘throwing around the term “Zio” (a term for Jews usually confined to websites run by the Ku Klux Klan) with casual abandon’.

He spoke of ‘senior members of the club expressing their solidarity with Hamas [the terrorist organisation which controls the Palestinian enclave of Gaza] and explicitly defending their tactics of indiscriminately murdering civilians’.

Chalmers cited the example of a former co-chair claiming that ‘most accusations of anti-Semitism are just the Zionists crying wolf’. Most damning of all was his claim that ‘a large proportion of both OULC and the student Left in Oxford more generally have some kind of problem with Jews’.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3455602/Anti-Semitism-shame-Oxford-s-Left-wing-hate-mob.html

I think there are some grievance activists who hie their anti-semitism behind what they call "anti Zionism" and I think the left has allowed them to gain confidence because of the left's politically correct inclusion politics which has led to its leadership increasingly losing touch with the common sense majority to such an extent that women can fall into a so-called "inclusive" class of non-men, where Germaine Greer can be marginalised because she is not "inclusive" enough because of her views on transgender issues, and where the left cannot adequately challenge antisemitism and the attack on free speech and ideas because of their wish to be "inclusive".

But the good news is, all this crap is coming to an end. The NUS and the left wing grievance warriors will continue to grow in confidence and the TV news organisations will continue to fawn over them, but the common sense majority are waking up and rejecting these attacks on freedom and the left and their grievance activists are increasingly marginalising themselves from the common sense majority and in the end the metropolitan media will have to drop their grievance activists as politics across Europe, and now in America too, swings towards the common sense right which demands free speech for all groups and views.

BertrandRussell · 21/04/2016 10:38

Just in case anyone on this thread is not clear- claig is a fervent supporter of Nigel Farage and Donald Trump. I suggest an advance search before engagement..........

Helmetbymidnight · 21/04/2016 10:41

I was just going to say how almost relaxing it is to be able to talk about anti-semitism with people who acknowledge it exists, who realise it is rising, who understand that anti-zionism is often a front for anti-semitism, oh, but then you came back.

Oh dear, Bertrands back, come on now, enough thinking about anti-semitism, we MUST all declare our position on Israel.

Lookingagain · 21/04/2016 10:48

I spoke to my English husband about the news yesterday. He blew it off saying that the NUS is a fringe organisation that most students don't even belong to and that no one takes seriously. I hope he is right.

Lookingagain · 21/04/2016 10:50

My position on Isreal? It should continue to exist and be allowed the right of self preservation.

claig · 21/04/2016 10:50

Yes, Bertrand, it is a free country where people can support Trump, just like the millions in America do. The "inclusive" left won't be able to marginalise Trump.

Your first post

"Being Jewish and being Zionist are not the same thing."

was in response to the OP's examples of

"the Islamist flavour of anti-semitism as displayed by Labour councillor Aysegul Gurbuz (and others) for examples who posted statements such as this on twitter :

"Ed Miliband is Jewish. He will never become prime minister of Britain."
"Adolf Hitler was praised as the ‘greatest man in history"."

These examples had nothing to do with "being Zionist" and everything to do with being Jewish.

You have not engaged with the issue of antisemitism brought up by the OP but immediately sought to divert it to one of "anti Zionism" when it had nothing to do with that.

You tried to marginalise antisemitism. And now you try to marginalise me because I support Trump. You are the exact example of the "inclusive" left which actually excludes people as a tactic in order to futher their views.

BertrandRussell · 21/04/2016 10:54

I stopped posting when the NUS thing came up- it didn't seem the time. I only posted today to warn you all about claig. But fine. Ignore the warning. Have fun..

claig · 21/04/2016 10:55

'He blew it off saying that the NUS is a fringe organisation that most students don't even belong to and that no one takes seriously.'

He is essentially right. However, the fringeness needs to be challenged by the majority otherwise it slowly gains in power and confidence. For every action, there is a reaction and the more fringe they become, the sooner we return to common sense and defeat them.

If they are not challenged, then they will grow, but they will be challenged as they go too far and move away from the mainstream.

MyBeloved · 21/04/2016 10:55

Sadly the NUS has in its membership potential future politicians, and Malia has been overwhelmingly voted in as their president despite her despicable views.

Helmetbymidnight · 21/04/2016 11:02

YOU are warning people about another poster?

You really don't understand that you are part of the problem, do you?

gettingbythistime · 21/04/2016 11:16

i can't believe how you lot respond to any of that bertrand persons posts. just ignore them. they are smug and goady. they love the attention. the posts are interesting to read until i come to one of their which are irritating. constantly trying to be clever. one of those smug MN left posters. just ignore the twat ffs

bobthebuddha · 21/04/2016 11:16

You only came back because of Claig, Bertrand Russell? Does that mean you're not going to tell us what anti-Zionism means to you?

bobthebuddha · 21/04/2016 11:19

And to call this all 'fun' is remarkably tone-deaf.

Helmetbymidnight · 21/04/2016 11:26

You're right, gettingbythistime. Blush

Re. NUS- even when I was a student, everyone thought they were (mostly) a load of extremists. They are marginal/fringe. And plenty of people, both students and those in the real world, will be appalled by her comments. As for her future, under first past the post, it would surely be impossible for her to be elected with those views - unless George Galloway stands down maybe.

Anseladams · 21/04/2016 11:49

BertrandRussell I always enjoy reading Claig's posts and even if I don't agree with everything Claig says I have already learned a lot from this poster. How odd you feel the need to 'inform' us ignorant other posters of Claig's 'true' ideology. You know what? We can all make up our own minds Bertrand.

TheNewStatesman · 21/04/2016 11:59

"I don't think there's any need to panicmonger"

I actually totally agree, if we are talking about the immediate future anyway. I mean, I don't think pograms and the Night of Broken Glass is round the corner, KNIW?

I'm just thinking more in terms of, what is the LONG TERM prognosis for Jews in Europe? If I were Jewish, what would the outlook be for my kids, my grandkids? Right from where I am standing, the long-term trends don't look so good.

That, I suspect, is why so many Jews are considering leaving right now.

TheNewStatesman · 21/04/2016 12:00

KWIM, not KNIW... God, I need more coffee!

Anseladams · 21/04/2016 12:00

"Just in case anyone on this thread is not clear- claig is a fervent supporter of Nigel Farage and Donald Trump. I suggest an advance search before engagement.........."

"II only posted today to warn you all about claig. But fine. Ignore the warning. Have fun.."

Who do you think you are Bertrand? How dare you try to discredit another poster who on this forum has no more or less right to post their views than you, me or anyone else?

Open debate is a cornerstone of democracy. Enough already with trying to silence views the so called left deem politically incorrect... Damn, PC, I go for trying to ascertain the truth through robust debate any day.

"You tried to marginalise antisemitism. And now you try to marginalise me because I support Trump. You are the exact example of the "inclusive" left which actually excludes people as a tactic in order to futher their views."
I fully agree with this statement and am depressed at how utter;y unintelligent large segments of the so called 'left' are debating or not debating.

Regarding the NUS, I have done a number of HE qualifications at a few different HE institutions in England and have never bothered with them. The student bar was the only interesting thing they had to offer but, the way things go, I wouldn't be surprised if they started only serving non-alcoholic drinks in the near future. In the name of inclusion so to speak.

VertigoNun · 21/04/2016 12:13

ShockING behaviour from NUS.

I don't mind Claig either.

bobthebuddha · 21/04/2016 12:38

I don't subscribe to Claig's political viewpoint, but to the best of my knowledge they will never shy away from answering questions put to them and setting out their rationale honestly, rather than setting conditions, utilising distraction techniques and then running away. Something BertrandRussell could learn from I think.

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