UK woman convicted of abortion

[Veterinari]

Full story here www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/woman-given-suspended-sentence-for-having-abortion-in-the-uk-a6968676.html

Very sad. Is there a will in NI to update legislation on this issue? As it stands everyone loses

www.irishcentral.com/news/Housemates-who-reported-Northern-Irish-woman-for-taking-abortion-pills-speak-out.html

This is what I was reading earlier, amongst other articles.

Oh dear, did gone just go full Godwins because she knows she's talking out her hoop?

Oh ffs.

Well, you know what they say: once you go Godwin...

spare I think you'd be surprised regarding facial features. Not 'all of us' share your experience. Especially if one of the women had recently had a miscarriage and was emotionally primed to see the features of a baby. I think it's highly unlikely that they intentionally lied, and I believe them when they say that they were deeply traumatised by these events. They may have misinterpreted what they were seeing, perhaps believing that what they were looking at was the beginning of male genitalia.

Opening a bin lid - if you'd been dragged into these events and it was happening on shared property, and it was a shared bin, and you had a moral problem with abortion - I can see exactly why they felt they had to open that bin. Hacking into her phone, I hadn't been aware of.

'Confided'...it sounds more like she talked incessantly, carelessly and insensitively, without thought for how she was sweeping others up into her story or what she was asking them to be part of.

They are not dragging this woman through the mud in public because no one knows who she is. Therefore they are not harming her. They are speaking up for themselves because they think that the anonymous people in this story are being harshly judged on social media. So they want to put their experience forward. Fair enough - as I saw, they're not harming her by doing this.

I on my phone so can't link, but Google '32 reasons not to lower the abortion time limit' to find a paper by BPAS outlining the individual reasons that 32 women or girls sought a teination post 20 weeks.

'Gone' no-one has said that women should have the right have anything happen in their body. Simply that individuals should have the right to make choices about their own health care including pregnancy.

I am afraid, though, of the kind of thinking that has got us to where we are today, where venom is unleashed at the idea that someone would have a problem with a foetus being killed and placed in a dustbin, and the idea that another woman (who had recently suffered a miscarriage) was somehow morally obliged to ignore the almost certain knowledge of what she would be doing if she put the bins out that morning. There is something lacking in a society that sees only one victim there

As pointed out, we really don't know what the flatmates knew, when and how because their accounts are so inconsistent. What I really don't understand is the argument that their only feasible response to that situation was to report the matter to the police. Is it so hard to see that they had a number of alternatives? Frankly, I have difficulty in understanding how anyone who claimed to be traumatised by the thought of the foetus in the bin left it there for a week before going rooting through the bins a week later looking for it.

Palmer, that made me laugh....
I think we need all sides in this debate to be fair, Godwins and all as they are!
And I do keep saying amongst all the chaff is some grain, in her arguments.
Much as we have to sift for it.

They are not dragging this woman through the mud in public because no one knows who she is. Therefore they are not harming her.

To quote another bigot... A mealy mouthed reply.

They harmed her by lying constantly, keeping the foetus for a week before they reported it, by lying consistently about her and their actions on social media and on the radio.

And then you go Godwin.

Yeah, I get that Dont... but the chaff is strong with this one

Palmer
Keep sifting!

'the desire to save a life ' comment has just spectacularly blown your argument out of the water gonetosee, they bloody looked for the remains of a 10 week old foetus and believe you and me , I have seen hundreds in my time , chuck one in a bin bag full of rubbish and you are going to be up to your armpits looking for it , harsh but absolutely true . Nothing they did saved a life ,there was simply no motivation behind what they did ( a week after the event ) that could in any way be construed as life saving , everything they did ruined one , because they somehow couldn't keep drawing breath without being downright bloody nasty .

as I saw, they're not harming her by doing this

You know there's an ever so slight possibility that someone will have known the girl who lived with these two and will perhaps be able to use their strong powers of deduction to know who she is?

And, of course, the flatmates harmed her by reporting her to the police and, presumably, by giving full witness statements to facilitate her prosecution. The fact that they are now giving lying newspaper interviews only compounds that.

Gone,
You know that the at the point you went full Godwin, you lost the argument
Now you are just making a total twat of yourself and underlining my long-suspected view that crackpot forced birth types are totally incapable of rational thought and logical debate

Can someone explain to me the following:

Highly restrictive abortion laws are not associated with lower abortion rates.

The abortion rate is 29 per 1,000 women of childbearing age in Africa, and 32 per 1,000 in Latin America — regions in which abortion is illegal under most circumstances in the majority of countries. The rate is 12 per 1,000 in Western Europe, where abortion is generally permitted on broad grounds.

Anyone care to explain why abortion law is effective?

There was no life to save, gone.

Regardless of whether you see the fetus as a life or a clump of cells, it was EIGHT DAYS before they reported it.

Come one, you're telling me that that was some misplaced sense of wanting to save a life?

That was an (I believe) unwell woman who was so angry at this poor girl for not giving her a baby, that she dobbed her in out of spite and nastiness.

The 'wanting to save a life' comment is completely illogical. Did the flatmates think that a police officer could revive a 10 week old embryo that had been in a bin for a week? I know people expect a lot of public servants, but really...?

"look at the arguments that were made regarding the Jews in the last war. They were seen as impinging on the rights of those who were not Jews, and anything was acceptable in eradicating them on the basis of this, If someone wanted to stand up and object, they were open to being accused of hating everyone who was not a Jew."

So, you say adult Jews were living inside the bodies of ethnic Germans and so if women have the right to determine what to do with a fetus inside them, Germans can also be justified in massacring millions of Jews?

WTF?!?!

"Pregnancy doesn't kill you (except in exceptional circumstances)"

Neither does rape, torture, kidnapping, and unlawful imprisonment.

And yet you would presumably not advocate for them.

Ever heard of concepts such as bodily integrity, personal autonomy, and determination?

I'm going to propose a new law.

Any women who wants an abortion can have an abortion.
However the man who got the woman pregnant is held accountable by law.

Seeing as it takes two people to create a baby, this seems as fair as any law that criminalises women as surely the effect of this new law would be to stop those men from getting all those immoral women pregnant in the first place.

Right?

Bodily integrity, personal autonomy, and self-determination, even.

I live somewhere where abortion is illegal. The number of women who go on day "shopping trips" to the nearest city by ferry is unbelievable. You can't stop it.

It is a woman's right to choose. It is her body & her life that will be very directly affected by having a child. I love the post above about holding the man accountable.

I have a few suggestions, which can be ignored, as we are all of free will.
Let's move away from the Godwin's Law issue - a sure sign this is going around in circles.
In practice, no more mention of Jewish people, Nazis, etc on this thread.

Let's consider ways forward to address the situation the woman at the centre of this case found herself in, with the aim of ensuring no one else finds themselves in this scenario. They will, I know, but let's try to change it.

Lobby local politicians with the aim of ensuring legal access to safe abortion services. I appreciate that religion and in some cases sectarian divides makes this seem like the Mountain of Doom, but up to not so long ago women couldn't vote or inherit, so it has to start somewhere. If you are entirely opposed to abortion, the volunteer your time at a local refuge or similar. If we all care about lives this much (mothers and children) then put your money where your mouth is.

Donate to Women on Web, Abortion Support Network, etc. If this does not sit easy with you, then consider Women's Aid or a domestic violence shelter near to you. There's always one, sadly.

Consider signing the petition mentioned upthread. I will link when I find it.

Religious beliefs have no place in healthcare. Ever. I don't know how to change that one, but I am adamant that is true. Or true for me at any rate.

Petition to change abortion law

Sorry spare - I was addressing the question to gone. I don't think anybody ever needs to justify their abortion - I just think it's bloody hypocritical of the pro-life viewpoint to say "All life is sacred" and then introduce exceptions for rape etc.