UK woman convicted of abortion

[Veterinari]

Full story here www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/woman-given-suspended-sentence-for-having-abortion-in-the-uk-a6968676.html

Very sad. Is there a will in NI to update legislation on this issue? As it stands everyone loses

[SuburbanRhonda]

But she will still have a criminal record, glinda, which will mess up her chances of certain careers and travel to certain countries.

I think that's bad enough.

[Gileswithachainsaw]

prosecuted for an abortion? just :(

how lucky we are that we have access to these services. I have never had one and I hope I never have to but the idea that a woman is unable to exercise a right to choose is shocking.

how dare strangers dictate a woman has to stay pregnant no matter whether she wants to or not. the ale peope whi also offer little assistance in looking after the baby or taking care of the mother post birth.

just awful. poor woman. and disgusting "mates"

[gonetoseeamanaboutadog]

I actually feel very sorry for those flatmates.

From what they're saying, they were the ones who found the idea of a home abortion repulsive and who were, quite rightly, horrified by the idea of a small, fully formed person being put in the trash. They were the ones who had tried everything within their power to come up with an alternative option and who were faced with the task of putting out the dustbin. That's a position they never should have been put in, and going to the police was the only course of action within their power.

Given how traumatising they found the event from start to finish, how they were being asked to collude in something that was wrong on many levels whichever way you look at it, I'm not surprised they went to the police. People are conditioned to 'go to the police' when something wrong happens, and the woman in question wasn't behaving in a way that would encourage a traumatised person to view her as a victim. She was crassly insensitive in referring to her baby and her pregnancy in the terms that she did, knowing that she was speaking to someone who had recently suffered a miscarriage. At the very least, she should have done this quietly and disposed of the body herself in a way that involved no one else, since she was able to be up and about the very next day - incidentally the day that the bins were put out, not that she bothered. It might be tempting to view this person a tragic heroine/victim, and in a sense she may be a victim certainly, but her flatmates could be forgiven for missing that point, given what they were going through and what she wasn't going through. I would also have found it highly offensive to be in their position.

It isn't the flatmates' fault that their options sucked. They were quite right to feel that something was out of kilter and they had nothing else to do. Personally, I don't feel that all women in Northern Ireland are bound to put up with and collude with fully formed foetuses being put out with the trash, simply because of the way the law is. They don't have to be ok with it.

[SuburbanRhonda]

Why do you feel sorry for the flatmates? Instead of supporting another woman in her time of need, they decided to report her to the police because she wasn't fucking remorseful enough for their liking?

I've read an article where they tell their story - it's full of holes and inconsistencies. They should be ashamed of themselves.

[SuburbanRhonda]

veryproud

Yes I read that too. No words.

[LettingAgentNightmare]

For them to have found what has been reported as a 'male foetus' in the bin, she must have been pretty far along.

[JacobFryesTopHatLackey]

She was 10-12 weeks, I believe. All of the interviews from the flatmates and the stuff in the BelTel reek of Precious Life. Even the syntax and phraseology sound remarkably close to their placards and leaflets.

[Catvsworld]

My issue is how the frigg did she get court my husbands Irish and he said he were a woman knowing what the population at large believe why on earth did she tell any one what she was doing


The staff at the hospital would have had no way of knowing she had taken the pills lest she had told her house mates

[CrushedNinjas]

It's obvious that the flatmate was lying in the interview and desperately trying to make excuses for her despicable behaviour by calling the police.
Fact it, its impossible to know what sex the foetus is at 10/12 weeks.

[PalmerViolet]

The flatmates reported her because they thought she didn't feel an appropriate to them set of emotions. If she'd rent her clothes, worn sackcloth and ashes and wailed late into the night, then one assumes they'd have been just fine with it.

They are despicable human beings.

[diddl]

I don't agree with the flatmates reporting her, but I also don't see that they should have to support her if they didn't agree with what she was doing.

[Hygge]

I feel so sorry for her, and I have signed the petition.

I've lost two babies, and people tend to think this will make me anti-abortion, but I fully support any woman's right to decide for herself whether she wishes to continue a pregnancy or not.

I don't think that a woman should have to justify her reasons either. The fact that a woman wants a termination should be good enough for her to get one, especially in early pregnancy.

Usually people who have later terminations are doing so for medical reasons, because their baby is not expected to survive the full pregnancy or birth anyway.

This poor woman should have been allowed to have a termination and not been criminalised by a backwards law, her financial circumstances or a vindictive flatmate.

Pregnancy, in my experience, is difficult and life-threatening. Nobody should expect a woman to go through it unwillingly, and then blithely hand over a baby to someone else and carry on as though nothing had happened. It's not like that. It's not that easy.

Termination is something that has been happening for as long as there have been people. And surely it's a better option than all these babies bodies found buried in a septic tank, who were apparently born and left to die of neglect because they were disabled or frail or born to unwed mothers.

[gonetoseeamanaboutadog]

I don't agree with the flatmates reporting her, but I also don't see that they should have to support her if they didn't agree with what she was doing.

They weren't exactly given an option to look the other way, and to expect them to do so if it was against their conscience is to victimise them.

[RedToothBrush]

They don't have to support her. Correct.
They also don't have to lie through their teeth about it.

I wish their lies had been pointed out in court as is right and proper for a court to do.

[Dontlaugh]

Diddl it's a big leap from not supporting her to reporting her to the constabulary. They may not have agreed with her choices, but why run to the law?
Gonetoseeamanaboutadog, to quote you: They were the ones who had tried everything within their power to come up with an alternative option.
Perhaps I missed the report on where they offered to help her procure a legal abortion in England/Wales/Scotland? The only option I read about was one 39 year old housemate who had already endured a miscarriage, offering to raise the baby, if the pregnant woman carried on with the pregnancy which she very clearly had stated she didn't want to do.
Options smoptions.

[diddl]

"Diddl it's a big leap from not supporting her to reporting her to the constabulary."

Indeed & I don't think that they should have done that.

I don't like the sound of their story, but I do think that the woman was silly to involve them at all, although I know she was very young.

[PalmerViolet]

They weren't exactly given an option to look the other way

Of course they were. They certainly didn't have to report her, they reported her, according to their own words because she wasn't sad enough about it all for their liking.

to expect them to do so if it was against their conscience is to victimise them.

Are you normally this full of ridiculous hyperbole?

[Hygge]

"And I agree a DIY abortion at 32 wks where abortion is legal & accessible is just in a whole different league!

(I was born at 30wks!)"

I can see why you'd feel this way Diddl and I find it difficult to understand as well.

But I think in this case the woman claimed not to know just how far along in her pregnancy she was. Even her partner couldn't tell she was pregnant, and she apparently had a history of psychological and emotional issues. And her defence claimed she wasn't thinking rationally at the time either and was struggling to come to terms with her actions once she understood them.

I think, I hope, that what she did was rare, and unusual, and that she needed help rather than a prison sentence. It seems like a genuinely tragic case all around.

[gonetoseeamanaboutadog]

I've had a look at what they said...where are the lies? It's very convenient to say that they lied but what is the truth?

They seem to have talked to her at length and tried to access family support for her. Yes, the offer of help in terms of offering a way to go through the pregnancy without having to have a 'pest' at the end of it was very much rooted in a particular stance, but they were human beings in a tricky situation who have the right to that stance and shouldn't be under any obligation to procure anyone an abortion, legal or otherwise, if they don't want to do that. They were perfectly entitled to provide only that support which seemed to them appropriate, in line with their own conscience. It's not as if they blocked her from attending a family planning clinic down the road!

Not their fault that the options sucked.

[gonetoseeamanaboutadog]

palmer

No, not everyone can look the other way without going through hell about it, especially with the sight of a 10-12 week old foetus on their conscience and a moral dilemma about whether to even put the bins out. If you want to have a DIY abortion, don't expect everyone else to feel you're entitled to it. There are many people in the country who don't feel you're entitled to it and while that doesn't make them scumbags, it does make them highly unlikely to feel morally able to go about their business after being dragged into such an event as this was.

I don't think there's any difference between a 10 week foetus and a 30 week foetus.

[gonetoseeamanaboutadog]

in moral terms