is it really possible that Donald trump could be president????? [Part 3]

[Lweji]

Continuing the thread, and in reply to the two last posts of thread 2

Today 08:15 OhYouBadBadKitten

I don't think it is about Trump taking risks, its more that he is a narcisstic sociopath. He feels untouchable in what he says and has no regard for the consequences.

Today 06:53 fourmummy

To be fair, voters know that all political rhetoric mostly comes to nothing (rhetoric = argumentation and persuasion, elevated to an art from in Ancient Greece). Why do you imagine Labour want to introduce votes for 16 year olds? They know that people don't become "more conservative" as they get older-they become wiser to the political process and its lies rhetoric. So what's different with Trump? Why hasn't his unbelievably unlikeable public and private persona sunk him?

Answer=risk

He is not a ready-rolled, ready-prepped and ready-to-go politician (think Blair's son parachuted into a constituency; MIliband brothers, Clintons). These are not risking much because they were cast in the role when they were made. We know that this is the case with, certainly, Clinton (numerous interviews with aides attest to this; ditto for the others). Voters are doing a risk assessment of his risks and have decided that he is worth something. It's not as simple as suggesting that if someone votes for him then they must be racist or sexist, as I've seen journos assert. Voters are effectively doing a risk assessment and deciding that given the enormous costs both to him (energy, health, time away from family, reputation, financial, career, historical implications, ) and to his voters (risk of being viewed as sexist, racist, intolerant, asshole), the benefits must outweigh these costs. Very unwise to dismiss ordinary voters as simplistically sexist and racists, as many, many journalists have (shortsightedly) done. Even non-experts are very good at performing cost/benefit analyses

As I said I don't see anything of what he says as taking a risk. Because he is saying what many people want to hear.
As for personal cost, he is clearly someone who enjoys the power, the limelight, the adoration. All that is missing for him is the ultimate power, particularly as he sees other true billionaires taking central stage.
But he doesn't have the heart to be Gates.
So, he's going for the highest office, and on the back of American voters most primal fears.

But...
He's not averse to risk. He's built his empire on it. He's had four bankruptcies. Anyone should be worried about the way he manages risk.

For anyone who finds the world "leaders" funny, here is another amusing item on them

‘Trump Emergency’: World leaders wary of dumping on the Donald

Foreign leaders who harshly criticized Donald Trump's world views earlier this year have clammed up now that he is the presumptive Republican presidential nominee — and someone they may have to deal with if he winds up in the White House.

They realize they need to protect their relationship with the world’s most powerful nation by no longer airing their grievances as publicly as before."

www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2016/05/26/obama-world-leaders-donald-trump/84969622/

Guardian HQ watching live, BBC top brass in emergency viewing, all the politically correct cronies crapping it.

You do, of course, know that none of that is happening.

It's always unwise for politicians to take sides in the party politics of a much more powerful country.
Always the risk of backing the loser and making an enemy of the winners.

e.g. Bill Clinton humiliated John Major every chance he got, because a few Tory MPs were publically critical of Clinton during the 1992 US election campaign - and Major couldn't control them & didn't apologise.
Even though 99.999% of US voters would not have heard what those Tories had said.

However, in the case of Trump, his attempt to become the Republican nominee was considered ridiculous & impossible.
Hence several European politicians - incl Merkel & Cameron - felt safe to condemn him, as their own electorate demanded.

Nixon had his notorious "Enemies List" of people who criticised him. Both Clintons are known to bear grudges. Trump evidently does too.
btw, I wonder if the US electoral system particularly produces politicians who indulge their grudges and settle scores

Our politicians should just nod politely if Donald Duck decides to run in 2020

I'm sure most world leaders are very worried about Trump, as are nearly all environmentalists and climate scientists.
There is agreement by 95%+ of scientists about global warming; it's not surprising that the US oil industry & far right anti-government paranoids can find 5% who are contrary / paid to be so.

Surveys show over 40% of Americans believe in Creationism, with only 20% believing in a completely non-secular theory of evolution.
Voters in other Western countries tend to rate scientific evidence higher than religious or political dogma. Hence more likely to accept the science about climate change

Crikey, who would have thought Cameron has a backbone and principles
The other world leaders in Claig's article are doing massive backtracking over their earlier criticism of Trump, especially wrt his planned measures against Muslims & Mexicans.

" .... but there have been a few exceptions. Britain's Prime Minister David Cameron said on May 22 he stands by his criticism in December that Trump's proposed Muslim ban was "divisive, stupid and wrong”, and went a step further, saying Trump's ideas are also “dangerous."

No, I think that was a spokesman who said that (unidentified). Cameron has toned it down, dropped the word "stupid" but still says he stands by it being "wrong" etc.

Behind the scenes, porofuse explanations and clarifications are probably being given because they all know they are dealing with Donald J Trump and he doesn't suffer fools.

Rock'n'roll.

This is what is happening in Australia. All over the world, the puppets and world "leaders" are regretting their intemperate tone and fearing the wrath of Trump whose catchphrase is "politicians, all talk no action" and "get 'em the hell outta here".

"Turnbull rebukes Shorten for calling Donald Trump 'barking mad'

Prime minister suggests Labor leader’s comments about the presumptive US Republican presidential nominee could be ‘against the national interest’

www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/may/27/turnbull-rebukes-shorten-for-calling-donald-trump-barking-mad

We are seeing who really is in charge and who the puppets are.

Nobodies, puppets, politically correct ciphers surfaced and taunted Trump when their teenage advisers told them that Trump had no chance of winning. But now they are reprenting and regretting their rash behaviour in fear of the retribution of Trump.

World "leaders" are grovelling, the people are laughing.

World "leaders" are grovelling, the people are laughing.

No, they aren't.

Shorten (the Aussie Labour leader) has cut through all the complicated political analysis and given the most likely assessment: "Trump is barking mad"
Woof

It may be against union rules for politicians to call each other "stupid" like Cameron did to Trump.
But the truth slips out occasionally

If Trump gets elected, good time for Cameron to resign !

Perhaps the most frightening thing about this whole sorry affair is the way that the rise of the nationalist right has made it acceptable to display racist/fascist views in public. This is true not just in the US but in Europe too, with the rise of politicians like Boris Johnson and Marine Le Pen and the recent near-miss in Austria.

Trump is worrying enough, but it's his supporters who are really scary, and it's not just Mexicans and muslims who need to be worried: there have been several recent instances in which journalists been subjected to the vilest sort of anti-Semitic harrassment after publishing articles deemed insufficiently enthusiastic about Trump.

www.nytimes.com/2016/05/29/opinion/sunday/the-nazi-tweets-of-trump-god-emperor.html?_r=0

Regardless of whether Trump is elected or not (I still think it's unlikely) the campaign will have unleashed a wave of intolerance towards non-whites and non-Christians that will be difficult to roll back or even to control.

This probably comes too close to the truth for Drumpf - newsthump.com/2016/05/28/donald-trump-proves-the-only-thing-smaller-than-his-hands-are-his-balls/

This could explain a lot about Trump.

I think he is a narcissist, but as a doctor explains in this video clip, that is not a bad thing and is "exactly what America needs".

"Narcissist-In-Chief - Dr. Ablow Says Donald Trump Is Exactly What We Need"

You have to be on the outliers of normal to run for President. Trying to pin MH issues to Trump rubs me the wrong way because you could pin the same issues to any politician.

Some may be more pathological than others, though.

Mistigri,
I suspect the rise of the "right" and racism is a natural reaction against the PC foisting their idea of multiculturalism on everyone and screaming racist to anyone who questioned the outcome.

An honest loom about will tell us that people tend to mix sith others of a similar outlook. Why else do we have golf clubs and Moris Ital owners (eek) clubs? This expands to general cultural norms such as relegion and origin so by and large Poles tend to shop in the Polish superemarket and English don't shop in the Turkish supermarket. Such is human nature that people don't mix with other cultures and this leads to separation.

Separation leads to distrust and all the while the PC brigade are saying no one is allowed to question anything until someone like Trump comes along and expresses the disquiet of those who feel uncomfortable.

If we had had an honest discourse many years ago, we could have avoided some of the problems.

Professor it would make a nice change if a Trump/ Farage supporter would come out and condemn intolerance for a change. Did you click on the link? The point is not that all Trump supporters are fascists, because clearly that is far from being the case (although many, it appears, are prepared to excuse or turn a blind eye to fascism when it suits them) - but that the rise of nationalism has created an environment in which it is no longer beyond the pale to be openly racist.

Did you click on the link? Does this not worry you?

I find the trend of running down pc as if IT somehow is the issue worrying.

This is a diverse increasingly connected world. Sticking your hands in your ears and mourning the I don't know, the 40s, the 50s? Whatever idyll you think is gone will change nothing. PC is a tool which helps people work and live together and have rational debates which hopefully lead to greater understanding and possibly even solutions.

Let's face it, rampant "nationalism" hasn't worked out that well in the past.

Wiltng, I fear I must disagree.
PC is not a tool to allow rational debate. and help people work out issues, rather it is, or has become a tool to stop debate. The debacle in Rochdale is but one example of PC preventing genuine and much needed discussion. It is only recently that people have felt they can question how to marry immigrant culture with ethnic indigenous culture without being accused of being racist.

That such a debate is only happening recently has given rise to a worrying level of resentment and backlash.

Is any debate needed about the type of anti-semitism on display on the link I posted? If it's PC to condemn that sort of abuse then I am happy to be considered PC.

I honestly cannot believe that in 2016 someone is prepared to defend anti-semitism of this type. Read the link: we're talking about the sort of anti-semitism that doesn't deny the holocaust but actively celebrates it . Trump may not actively encourage this sort of abuse, but he consistently fails to discourage it.

wiltingfast, practically the entire real conservative movement is against political correctness - not Cameron and the modernisers - but all true conservatives. Ben Carson, who is black, is totally against political correctness. It has nothing to do with race, it has everything to do with freedom and that is what Trump is going to restore to society.

The reason Trump is doing so well is that he is totally fearless and is going to destroy political correctness and remove it and that will open up debate on all issues such as climate change which he called a "hoax" etc. There will be no more control mechanism or thought crime 1984 attack on liberty; Trumo will end it and that is why he is so popular.

"5 Reasons Trump Is Dominating American Politics

Political Correctness

The disciplines of this powerful movement had become so entrenched in the American culture that we didn’t really perceive just how much seething anger it was generating among Americans who didn’t view the world as the enforcement legions of political correctness demanded. Of course, everyone now knows how this bludgeon of right thinking has practically destroyed free speech and free thought on American campuses, as spineless administrators have stood by or joined in. That clearly disturbs many Americans, particularly those who want their children to seek an education in an environment that is at least open to political thinking consonant with their own views and principles. But it wasn’t clear until Trump’s emergence just how much ordinary citizens chafed at this cultural phenomenon in terms of the impact on their own everyday lives. Political correctness has sought, with much success, to narrow the range of political discourse by labeling as illegitimate certain views and thoughts that, just a few years ago, were considered entirely acceptable.
...
A stark reflection of this could be heard in a radio news report in Seattle recently about a high school youth there who put up a sign saying, “Build the Wall.” He was ordered to take it down, which was appropriate enough if the school had a policy against overt political expression on campus. But the principal had another rationale for the action. “We don’t tolerate racism at this school,” she told the radio station. The student was forced into a groveling apology. Thus did we have a student expressing the views of a politician who had collected nearly 11 million votes in the GOP primaries—yet was forced to recant upon pain of being cast out of polite society as a racist.

Donald Trump stood up to all of that, and he did so with pugilistic resolve. No presidential politician had done that before, and now it’s clear that many Americans were waiting for someone to express their frustrations over the zealous cadres of political correctness."

nationalinterest.org/feature/5-reasons-trump-dominating-american-politics-16384

"Trump’s War on Political Correctness Has Legs

Almost no restriction is too oppressive for the legions of busybodies who want to decide for all of us what we can say to each other. It’s a state of affairs that has free speech proponents more agitated than their rivals detect. The ongoing effort to quash disturbing but lawful speech is widely perceived as a plague on our society, not merely a difference in tastes. The buttinskies don’t get it. They can’t even fathom the notion that Trump’s war on political correctness is righteous or corrective. They think the bumptious New Yorker is so crude and juvenile he couldn’t possibly be up to something worthwhile. But Trump’s colorful insistence that offensive comments aren’t suppressible let alone punishable, is downright thrilling — and essential — to some of us.

The thought police and their defenders are not only clueless, but culpable for creating and sustaining the opportunity for Trump to shine as an anti-PC warrior. Their ongoing bewilderment over his ascension is obtuse in the extreme

www.huffingtonpost.com/jeff-norman/trumps-war-on-political-c_b_8144442.html

You cannot underestimate what an enormous change Trump will make to the entire western world. He is going to end political correctness and restore liberty of thought and expression which is what America was built on. He has outplayed the elites and they are at a loss of how to handle him. He will end all their plans.

He says "we are being scammed, and it won't be happening any more".

'But it wasn’t clear until Trump’s emergence just how much ordinary citizens chafed at this cultural phenomenon in terms of the impact on their own everyday lives. '

It is of course exactly the same in this country. Farage was an example of it. He won 4 million votes practically singlehandedly becaue the rest of UKIP are not in the same fearless league as him. If we had a Trump in the UK, he would sweep away our entire Oxbridge political class; the people would do the same as they are doing in America. The political correctness of our political class would not be able to save them.

I have said from the beginning that Trump will win and the reason is political correctness. Hillary and the Democrats have nothing to counter Trump with apart from political correctness, the 1984 thought silencing mechanism. But in Trump they have met their match; he is scard of no one, not the media, not the political class, not the elite and not world "leaders". That is why he will win.