is it really possible that Donald trump could be president????? [Part 3]

[Lweji]

Continuing the thread, and in reply to the two last posts of thread 2

Today 08:15 OhYouBadBadKitten

I don't think it is about Trump taking risks, its more that he is a narcisstic sociopath. He feels untouchable in what he says and has no regard for the consequences.

Today 06:53 fourmummy

To be fair, voters know that all political rhetoric mostly comes to nothing (rhetoric = argumentation and persuasion, elevated to an art from in Ancient Greece). Why do you imagine Labour want to introduce votes for 16 year olds? They know that people don't become "more conservative" as they get older-they become wiser to the political process and its lies rhetoric. So what's different with Trump? Why hasn't his unbelievably unlikeable public and private persona sunk him?

Answer=risk

He is not a ready-rolled, ready-prepped and ready-to-go politician (think Blair's son parachuted into a constituency; MIliband brothers, Clintons). These are not risking much because they were cast in the role when they were made. We know that this is the case with, certainly, Clinton (numerous interviews with aides attest to this; ditto for the others). Voters are doing a risk assessment of his risks and have decided that he is worth something. It's not as simple as suggesting that if someone votes for him then they must be racist or sexist, as I've seen journos assert. Voters are effectively doing a risk assessment and deciding that given the enormous costs both to him (energy, health, time away from family, reputation, financial, career, historical implications, ) and to his voters (risk of being viewed as sexist, racist, intolerant, asshole), the benefits must outweigh these costs. Very unwise to dismiss ordinary voters as simplistically sexist and racists, as many, many journalists have (shortsightedly) done. Even non-experts are very good at performing cost/benefit analyses

As I said I don't see anything of what he says as taking a risk. Because he is saying what many people want to hear.
As for personal cost, he is clearly someone who enjoys the power, the limelight, the adoration. All that is missing for him is the ultimate power, particularly as he sees other true billionaires taking central stage.
But he doesn't have the heart to be Gates.
So, he's going for the highest office, and on the back of American voters most primal fears.

But...
He's not averse to risk. He's built his empire on it. He's had four bankruptcies. Anyone should be worried about the way he manages risk.

Why any sane person would think it's a good idea to make up policy on sensitive issues "on the hoof" is quite beyond me.

Trump. Wants to ban abortion and "punish" women that do it. Disgusting, misogynistic, racist, publicity-hungry, power-mad arrogant twat.

Let's not over-complicate things with mysterious reference to "elites" and "establishment" and .

My problem is not why Trump does what he does or says what he says.
What I don't understand is why would anyone follow him.
At least with Cruz you do know he's a right wing religious hard liner.
Trump is primarily a bullshitter.
I get that people need a Messiah but this ain't it.
All we know for sure is that he wants power, which is a great endorsement. (To be clear, I'm being sarcastic)
His key campaign theme should be:
Vote Trump because he wants to be president and will say anything to get there.
Or
Making Trump look great again.

'His key campaign theme should be:
Vote Trump because he wants to be president and will say anything to get there. '

Absolutely, everyone knows that is what it is all about. All his voters understand that and don't mind it because of what he will do when he gets there.

'Trump is primarily a bullshitter. '

Absolutely, everyone knows that and his voters understand that and don't mind it. His voters just hope that the lying media and political class don't catch him out too much and trip him up too often so that he doesn't make it.

'What I don't understand is why would anyone follow him. '

That is the key question and is what it is all about. Why?

It is very simple - because Trump is "on our side" and the rest of the "bought and paid for". spun, controlled, politically correct puppet political class aren't. People like Trump because he is with us and not "one of them" (the "bought and paid for" political class of puppets who do what they are told by their bosses). People love Trump because they despise "them" (the puppets). That is why they forgive Trump all his blunders and all of his lack of knowledge and lack of policy detail and hope that he will make it despite all the odds and world Establishment against him.

A good report from the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation shows why ordinary people like Trump. It shows bikers who have never voted before and who can't be reached by Establishment spin doctors and who are energised to vote for Trump because they believe he will save the country, save and bring back jobs and work for them. As one of the bikers says "he is one of us, with us". It is as simple as that - he is "with us" and the puppets are with the bankers.

People need hope, they want change, they want someone to work for them and someone who has their interests at heart - not the interests of the donor class and the corporate lobbyists. Millions of people in America think that Trump is the real deal, on their side. That is why the more the media and the political class attack Trump, the more the people love him. It's a revolution, it's Trump 2016.

As Matt Frei said (reflecting the sheer panic in Wall Street, the City, the seats of power worldwide and Oxbridge) in consternation, confusion and trepidation at the end of his documentary

"whether he is elected or not, Donald Trump makes you wonder whether this country, this democracy, in this year has changed beyond recognition"

And as the people say in reply

Go Trump! "Make America Great Again".

"The Voters of Trump Nation"

I don't know what kind of a person you have to be to not only desperately want to vote for but also tirelessly campaign for a candidate you know is a bullshitter and a liar who will just say anything to win the election.

Obviously, Trump is a despicable bully without any moral fiber but what about you? I'm sure you have at least some brains and morals, claig. Why would you lose yourself in adoration to a man who doesn't?

So, Trump will allow torture ("waterboarding and more") but will ban abortion & punish those who seek/provide it. Outstanding.

I'm actually happy to see these recent announcements. Trump's candidacy will just serve to ensure another Democrat in the White House, just like Sarah Palin did in the last election

'Why would you lose yourself in adoration to a man who doesn't?'

Because I am just like millions of Americans who support Trump. We all think that Trump will change, not just America, but the whole world. If Trump wins, it will be the end of our "bought and paid for" puppet class, the end of globalisation and free trade deals like TTIP, the end of political correctness and we will get some common sense here too.

"'Why would you lose yourself in adoration to a man who doesn't?'
Because I am just like millions of Americans who support Trump."

Have you heard of a logical fallacy called circular logic, claig?

because Trump is "on our side"

He's a bullshitter.
He's bullshitting the voters about being on their side too. At the very least you have no guarantee that he is on anyone's side because his policies are driven by his bullshitting. How blind can you be not to see this?

Not saying any other candidates are necessarily better, but he's at the very least as bad as them. Only worse because he's supposedly different.

I have already said that support for Trump is based on gut feel, instinct, intuition and emotion, not on cold hard logic.

The reason Trump can reach bikers, people who have never voted before and millions of working class Americans when he is a billionaire who has no real clear thought out policies, is due to emotion, not logic.

'He's a bullshitter.
He's bullshitting the voters about being on their side too. At the very least you have no guarantee that he is on anyone's side because his policies are driven by his bullshitting. How blind can you be not to see this?'

Absolutely. Everybody knows that, everybody sees that. But.

'Not saying any other candidates are necessarily better, but he's at the very least as bad as them. '

That is where you are wrong. We know how bad the "bought and paid for" puppets are, we have seen their work for 20 years as they went to war in Iraq and Libya and backed the Jihadis in Syria and shipped jobs abroad and closed down steel plants and didn't subsidise them or cut their green energy taxes to help the people maintain their jobs. We have seen how they negotiated their globalist free trade deals like NAFTA and now they want TPP and TTIP. No one knows what Trump will bring, but they have hope that he will be better than the puppets. That is why they vote for him.

And what are your emotions, gut feelings etc telling you about a man whom you know is a liar and a bullshitter who will say anything at all to get elected?

If they say " Yay! That sounds like a great guy!", I would recommend not trusting them. At all. I fact, I would wonder how you have survived for so long with such lack of judgement and self-preservation instinct.

Cote, my emotions and gut feeling are the same as the millions of Republican voters in America who have put Trump in the lead for the Republican nomination, that Trump will fix things.

I have said from the beginning that I think Trump will become President and although the system and the whole world is doing everything they can to stop him, I think he will still make it due to the emotion and gut feel of millions of Americans.

Matt Frei and the academics and the political class don't fully understand it

'Donald Trump makes you wonder whether this country, this democracy, in this year has changed beyond recognition'

They can't understand why the spin can't beat Trump's bullshit. It is because of emotion and hope and belief that Trump is "on our side". As the African-American woman says at the start of this video clip

"the truth is, Trump, I believe in this guy to make our country great again"

People have lost faith in the political class, as all the media analysts now say openly "people know the game is rigged", they know that the super delegates will be used to stop Bernie and they know that the Republican elite are trying to take the nomination from Trump. People want change - Bernie or Trump and the system is reeling as they try to steal it to save themselves.

"Cote, my emotions and gut feeling are the same as the millions of Republican voters in America "

That is another logical fallacy, called Appeal to Numbers.

Billions of flies eating shit doesn't make it tasty, billions believing in God doesn't mean God exists, Germans overwhelmingly voting for Hitler doesn't mean he was a great guy, and millions of Americans supporting Trump doesn't mean he is worthy.

Claig, would you personally vote for this man who has clearly stated that he wants women to be punished if they have an abortion?

'That is another logical fallacy'

It is not about logic, it is about hope, belief and emotion. That is why the Establishment are unable to beat Trump. They can hire the best spinners and whizzkids from Harvard and Oxbridge to try and use logic on the people, but the people think at the gut level with emotion and belief and no matter how many academics and whizzkids and spinners the Establishment use, they can;t get the people to "believe" in them or have any shared "emotion" for them.

That is why they are at a loss and can only resort to admonishing the people by calling Trump a bigot. But that has failed too and they are at a loss of how to turn this disaster around. Their last desperate act will probably be to roll Blair out to lecture the people about the error of their ways. But the people are too smart for them.

SquareDolphin, yes because he doesn't mean what he says, he doesn't believe it and he has already changed it and now said that the doctors should be punished instead, but everyone knows that he doesn't mean that either.

Claig. He does mean it, and whether he's suggesting women of the doctors who support them should be punished is irrelevant.

This man hates women. His varying insults have set the stage for a while now but this is trade off time.

You vote for Trump = you vote against women's rights, and all the political bullshit in the world won't change that.

He doesn't hate women. The majority of managers he has employed are women. Trump wins across all demographics in primaries and that includes Republican women.

Well, claig, people haven't seen what Trump is capable of. They have no idea what he's capable of.
As people had no idea about the worst dictators in history.
Not sure that's a recommendation for him.

Lweji, I agree with you. No one really knows what Trump will do. All they know is that the Establishment are petrified and that is good enough for lots of voters. I think he will be very good for the whole world, but we will have to wait and see what he actually does.

Do you read the stuff you write, claig? Who in his right mind would vote for a candidate if nobody knows what he will do? A candidate you know is a consummate liar and bulshitter, as well.

Is this how people felt when Hitler rose to power do you think?

Who?

Millions of Republican voters which is why Trump is in the lead. That is what has happened. I am only explaining what has happened and why it has happened and it is all due to the loss of faith in the political class. That is why Matt Frei has made two documentaries trying to understand what is going on and why

"Donald Trump makes you wonder whether this country, this democracy, in this year has changed beyond recognition'

That is why the entire world political class and Davos and Tony Blair are "anxious" about what is happening.

"Davos elite alarmed at prospect of nominee Trump"

www.reuters.com/article/us-davos-meeting-trump-elite-idUSKCN0UZ2MD

It is what it is, it is happening before our eyes and there is a reason for it.

He was certainly different from the rest.