Sex Attacks in Cologne and other European Cities Part IX

[vladimirsoftless]

Petition

Women in the UK must be free to work, travel and live free of sexual violence

Recently, women across the EU were subjected to mass sexual assaults of a type previously unknown in Europe. We demand that Government brings forward proposals for extra measures to uphold UK women's rights, safety & freedom, and to expand police understanding-recognition-response to such behaviour.

Please take a look and and sign:

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/119385

Previous threads

Thread1

Thread 2

Thread 3

Thread 4

Thread 5

Thread 6

Thread 7

Thread 8

"spend a bit more time uncovering why your shitty racist views are wrong and why you've managed to put off most posters from commenting on threads with anything related to refugees?"

Starting multiple threads on the same topic and literally calling anyone who doesn't agree with you racists and nazis is off putting tbh. Maybe that's why you haven't had much luck

Maybe spend a bit more time uncovering why your shitty racist views are wrong and why you've managed to put off most posters from commenting on threads with anything related to refugees?

Thank for the biggest laugh I've had in a long time. Brilliant.

I've reported that comment too, enough wild generalising, eh?

Is the usual suspect STILL banging the same drum? Thowing wild accusations at posters, calling them Nazis and racists and then reporting them to NBHQ when they react?

A poster not interested in debate but promoting a political agenda with the seeming acquiescence of NBHQ who seem only too willing to do her bidding and suspend or ban otherwise excellent MNetters.

Still, as long as they keep getting the clicks eh? Keeps the advertisers happy and the cash rolling in.

Waits for ban.........

A lot of those from Syria left Turkey for a better life economically and because they think there are jobs and housing for them in places like Germany and Sweden and trhe UK.

In the Sunday Times yesterday was description of a leaflet in Arabic which had been given (do not know by whom) to the Syrians in Greece wanting to go to Macedonia and from there up to Germany. The note said across the river there are no barriers and you will be able to make your way to Germany. It said this will only work if a very very large number of you cross that river. It was signed (forged i think) as if by a German ex minister. I think 3 people died crossing that river and once they crossed, cold and wet they were returned to Greece. So although they all have phones with them I still think we need to spend more money on giving them clear facts in their own native languages about where they should go and when.

I'm confused. The camp has been there a year without water-based drama, and yet it was this week that the refugees chose to cross the water - the same week that "volunteers" turned up with leaflets promising safe passage vs. deportation - and also strung ropes across the water and wore hi-viz to help them see the route?

What a tremendous coincidence!

It's also somewhat disingenuous to suggest that these leaflets are the imagination of the "right-wing press" - given that the Greek police + government are furious about the incident and looking to charge people with manslaughter.

I never knew the Greek government took their lead from British "right-wing press". Extraordinary!

As for Pakistan - it's always seemed a very divided community. The haves and have-nots. A few years ago (5?), there was terrible flooding in Pakistan displacing many people and causing death. Pakistan called for the west to donate to donate relief. The very same week a cricket scandal broke out with a Pakistani player accused of tampering with the ball - the well-to-do Pakistani Brits interviewed on British TV had lots to say about cricket... less about the poor back "home". It is not for Europe to iron out inequalities in "caste-based" cultures - that movement must come from the "elite" in those countries themselves.

Emily, please take notice of what Wemust said and accept that you are to blame for no one wanting to comment on your numerous threads all on the same subject, especially when the majority people who don't agree with you are called names. Stop blaming other people and take responsibility for your own actions.

I'm confused. The camp has been there a year without water-based drama, and yet it was this week that the refugees chose to cross the water - the same week that "volunteers" turned up with leaflets promising safe passage vs. deportation - and also strung ropes across the water and wore hi-viz to help them see the route? What a tremendous coincidence!

Another tremendous coincidence was a post the week before this humanitarian outrage that sank without a single reply. It was attempting, IIRC, to drum up outrage and haranguing MNetters to act over the claim that the migrants and refugees in Idomeni were suffering trench foot.

I wonder if the two are related?

Actually, re. the leaflets that is true. I wish someone could investigate their origin. The ex german minister says they are nothing to do with him. The video footage I saw yesterday of the refugees crossing the river has a good few blonde Western women in there. It looks like agitators from the West.

www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/15/macedonia-forcibly-returns-refugees-greece-idomeni

Thank you for the link Mariscal. Well worth a read.

Thanks Maris.

For anyone wishing to avoid clicking on inconvenient links, here's a quote. It's from the Guardian. Correct me if that's a right wing mouthpiece?

The abortive “march of hope” appears to have been triggered not only by conditions in the camp that have deteriorated by the day but an Arabic-language leaflet encouraging refugees to take fate into their own hands.

The document, purportedly distributed by activists on Monday, provided a map and instructions on how best to breach the border, crucially delineating a dry river bed despite heavy rain in the region for the past two weeks. Three Afghan migrants drowned attempting to cross the fast-flowing waters earlier in the day.

DG2016 good point about information, it is key but again there seems little positive action by EU.

Still waiting for Em. to comment on the Pew survey.
New, she's said upthread that people gave the answers they did because they were frightened to give different ones because they lived in repressive countries. She obviously hasn't read the survey, because in Tunisia (which was opening up enormously when the survey was conducted, and now enjoys practically European levels of freedom), 93% of respondents said that a women should always obey her husband.

emily, before you criticise me for a 'nasty tone', please bear in mind that I only took the tone I did after you had twisted what I said: I think was justified in being a bit cross. Implying that you're hard of thinking was rather rude, I do agree, but I am very frustrated by your refusal to read and learn.

Also, it wasn't as rude as calling people xenophobic, racist etc on the basis of minimal evidence that they might be.

*The abortive “march of hope” appears to have been triggered not only by conditions in the camp that have deteriorated by the day but an Arabic-language leaflet encouraging refugees to take fate into their own hands.

The document, purportedly distributed by activists on Monday, provided a map and instructions on how best to breach the border, crucially delineating a dry river bed despite heavy rain in the region for the past two weeks. Three Afghan migrants drowned attempting to cross the fast-flowing waters earlier in the day.*
Jesus. There is no right answer to this, but that certainly isn't helping anyone. Asylum in the first country - those are the rules, and we either step up to the plate and set up processing centres in Greece, or just give up and do a Merkel.

The scary thing is percieved xenophobia and racism are now apparently worse than rape and murder.

There is no-one these activists aren't willing to sacrifice. Refugees, women and even their own.

www.liveleak.com/view?i=690_1444130828

This is interesting ....these people
www.facebook.com/Better-Days-for-Moria-1025571667507571/
are in volunteers in a camp near Lesvos.
They say they need more volunteers (and Urdu speakers for the Pakistani 'refugees' )

All volunteers need to register with the local municipality. The deadline for existing volunteers to register is the 15th March.

Meanwhile...the Bristol Skipchen

www.facebook.com/bristolskipchen
announce on the 9th March they are leaving their kitchen in Lesvos to Better Days for Moira to run and going to move to Athens and Idomeni
they turn up in Idomeni and a day or so later this happens ....
Flip through the photos on their facebook and there are 2 photos of who I think is the blond woman with dreads seen 'helping' in the mainstream media images (one is from the beginning of Feb ish with an interesting 'blog' post)

Just to say that i have lurked on these threads and the only thing that has put me off posting has been emily

The shame of it is that most posters are not being racist and are being sympathetic to the plight of refugees and that emilys heart is in the right place

Back To lurking now

That FB page gives me the rage. How dare they post pictures of those they themselves lead to their deaths. Let's hope Blondie and her mates feel the full force of the law. Wonder what Greek prisons are like these days.

Information is a difficult issue. On all websites on line, here and elsewhere, you always need to do a lot of research and not believe whoever is telling you anything and it must be even harder if you are in a Turkish camp wanting to make a better life or in mud in Greece.

I read of someone (work colleague/contact) whose local area is taking in 100 refugees and they offered their home for some as long as they were Syrian and families. They endured a vetting and were given a long list of things like new doors, smoke alarms and all sorts before they would be eligible even though it's a perfectly normal family house with spare bed rooms where the children are safe. They pressed and pressed to find out who would be allocated to them - they were told 4 people. They were eventually told they were all single men - yet their offer had been only to house families. This is just one case but in the press it had said their local area were taking in Syrian families and yet everyone is being allocated single men only which if you live with your family in the UK might not be what you want, not that I am sexist or thing young men are awful (I live alone with 3 young men myself including my teenagers) but it does perhaps illustrate that a lot of these people are fit young men many not from Syria and lots who are economic migrants only who have no legal right to be here.

Anyway, the thread has been derailed quite enough; we all know the political agenda at play here.

Back to the debate.

Sex attacks by some migrant men, are still happening well into 2016 after the initial outcry after Cologne.

Have there been any actual prosecutions? Does anyone know who is quantifying the 'cultural training' given in Belgium? The Norwegian programme closed due to lack of funding. I heard the policewoman in charge of Finish training being interviewed. It was quite depressing listening.

February 20: Two ten-year-old girls were groped by a group of adult men. Police say the men surrounded the girls at a bus station and started to touch them while threatening to rape them. Adults saw what was happening and intervened before the men escaped.

February 21: A women was walking alone at midnight in the town centre when a man passing by made sexual remark. The woman responded by calling him an ‘idiot’. He punched her, splitting her eyebrow and threatened to kill her. He was interrupted by passers-by and fled.^

February 26: A women walking to work near the university was attacked by three men, beaten and pushed to the ground. They held her down and forced their fingers into her mouth while saying offensive, sexual words to her. Taleb Moafagh, 22, was arrested over the incident.^

February 27: Police saw men surround a group of women and grope them outside a nightclub. When police tried to intervene, a drunken brawl broke out between men coming out of the club and the sex attackers fled.^

March 2: Two women walking home from a bar were stopped by a group of men who told them: ‘Girls should not be out at this time of the night’ – before pushing them into a corner and groping them, then wandered off, laughing.^

March 5: A woman walking by herself was threatened by a man in passing car, who screamed at her he would get his friends to ‘rape and murder’ her. When she ran off, he chased her but she managed to get to her apartment before he reached her.^

March 6: A women walking home alone was whistled at by a man. When she told him to stop, he hit her in the head with his fist. She fell down and he punched her a second time, pushed her head into the snow and screamed at her he would rape and kill her before fleeing.^

March 6: The same day another woman was walking home from a restaurant was attacked by three men. She was hit in the stomach by two of the men and shoved to the ground. A third man began undoing her trousers, but she managed to hit him in the head with her elbow. He started bleeding and fled. She later told police she was trained in martial arts – a skill police say saved her from being raped.^

The above attacks all took place in Sweden; my Swedish friends are relying on other media, including UK press to read reports.

Good god dg - that's appalling.

DG, did they still have to take these men in or were they allowed to refuse them?

I think some posters find empathy hard.

I suppose some people are lucky enough to get through life without many challanges, or to even hear of challenges from family members, I know on the other hand, some posters here have parents/ grandparents who fled the Nazi's or other dreadful regimes and have some knowledge of what life must be like at the moment for some of the people we see in the news.

I also have personal experience of some hardship, and this was before the days of smart phones and the internet. I know what its like to be desperate for information.

That one sentence could mean the difference between being homeless or not, loosing your home or not.

What its like as a lay person to try and converse with legal types and legal jargon, when they think you should also know it, its awful.

Scrambling round for the one word, sentence, key to help your cause.

In my own case it was these two words " New Evidence". Two simple words to stop a juggernaut in motion. But it took weeks to learn of them, access them and understand their meaning and power.

I know what sort of volunteer I would like to help me, in that situation,

one who speaks the clear truth " this leaflet is a lie, there is no help for you, and the river will kill you, you will be sent straight back, there are activists at work here and they do not care about you, stay here"

Or " take this map, memorise it, go to this point, and get to here, there will be lorries waiting to get you...." etc etc etc etc. Then die...die in the river on a worthless, pointless exercise set up by activists who have a political cause and care nothing for you.

I think some posters should search deep into their souls right now, I really do.