Sex Attacks in Cologne and other European Cities Part VII

[januarybrown1998]

part 6

part 5

part 4

part 3

part 2

part 1

The events of NYE were shocking enough; the subsequent minimising and under-reporting were an affront to women's rights to equality across Europe.

It's a testament to the tenacity and commitment of this community that we are at thread VII; do join the discussion and feel free to share the links and letters to anyone you think may wish to be part of this important debate.

We are currently awaiting the approval of a petition to parliament.

Shortly we will post links for those who want to take a proactive part in safeguarding the rights of all UK women to live in freedom from the fear of mass sexual assault as we sadly saw in NYE and reports of which are finally seeing daylight across Europe.

I won't sign that it's going ott.

I want the police to stop sex crimes and prosecute. I want the press to report with correct crime figures, descriptions of the crimes/perpetrators and stop victim blaming. Agreed. There must be things we can work with here to word the petition in a more concrete way. These are all excellent points. Agree that 'hate crime' diverts from these aims. Can anyone weave these into 300 characters ?

How about focusing just on the police response and accuracy of media reporting?

FFS all the Muslim women I know wear perfume, they wear make up too, some of them wear skinny jeans as well. I doubt the girls were half naked as it is Germany in December, not the Algarve in Summer, you need a coat and thick tights even if you have a skirt on. We don't all around in burkas, even Muslim women. Deluded!

Not sure about hate crime but it is definitely becoming what I would call an attempt to control a section of society by terror, making women too afraid to go about their normal lives. It is based in a kind of hate, one based on not having ultimate power.

The jihadists on the programme yesterday seemed to largely do what they did as it gave them a sense of power. Many of them were from backgrounds where they largely didn't have much direction in life. By doing this it gave them a sense of superiority. Power over women is much the same thing it stems from the man's sense of inadequacy and dissatisfaction with his own place. Secure men don't tend to feel they need this.

We do need a clearer aim for the petition I guess. We need to convey that we need a clear policy from the government on this phenomenon if it surfaces here and that the police will be trained to both recognise and deal with. Plus clear information to all sections of society on what is acceptable and what is not.

I am not going to waste my time and energy on another petition until someone comes forward to front it.

We do need a clearer aim for the petition I guess. We need to convey that we need a clear policy from the government on this phenomenon if it surfaces here and that the police will be trained to both recognise and deal with. Plus clear information to all sections of society on what is acceptable and what is not. Basically, I agree but with some provisos. The last point suggests that men just need tutoring up for sexual assault to stop - they don't as they know perfectly well what they are doing and why they are doing it (your first few points). It is generally the case that everything other than asking the govt to prevent assaults against women implies an acceptance of their continuation. What about simply asking the govt in the petition to 'prevent future assaults'? Something like:

New Year's Eve mass assaults...We ask the government to ensure that measures are in place to prevent any future assaults in the UK.

The petition just needs to get up to the debate level. The actual demands are unlikely to ever be instituted. It just needs 100k signatures so that the issues are debated and kept in the public eye.

Vertigonun

So sorry again if I'm being really thick. Why do you think recording crimes like this as hate crimes would play into the hands of misogynist men?

As I understand it hate crimes are reported a made public each year showing numbers of attacks on each group. Women are the only 'minority' no included. I think if we were we would come out top of the list, this might keep abuse of women on the public mind, the press would talk about it more and politicians might see the problem we have. I suppose it could take attention away for other hate crime victims? Also, well, I think abuse of women like this, and the more common stuff we're all used to, is a hate crime?

Final thought on this. I don't think it could easily be jumped on with cries of racism and if it did reach the numbers needed for debate, if it's not a good idea it would be rejected but a debate will still happen which was the aim of the original petition. Although perhaps if it's unpopular on here it's got no hope in the real world.

As I said I'm no expert and haven't thought about it from every angle and have no legal knowledge so if somebody can point out all the holes in this idea I'll be very greatful.

I explained in a previous thread why asking for hate crimes against women is a bad idea. You sound like a ukip spinner.

I wasn't too clear about that sorry! No I don't think just educating is the way and yes they know why they are doing it, it is more a case of carpet bombing everywhere with the info so they cannot trot out any excuses as I saw on the documentary that they are good at that!

Yes we need to see the government come up with a plan, tell us exactly how the police and other agencies will work together to prevent this, we want to see someone from them come and state how they will keep every woman safe enough to go about her days and nights in peace without any behaviour modification on her part. Nobody has said right, we are going to do this, they just flap and say oh this is dreadful, not helpful...

Did you read the threads? I think you missed the "safety" v "rights" discussion.

If you get a sensible petition together, I will happily sign it. I am concerned that we have "missed the moment" and other forces are now "shaping the narrative."

Over the past few days the comments in the media about Muslim women needing to learn English or be deported have disturbed me. It just feels like another skirmish in the overall "migration crisis" where a different group of women is being harassed. Learning English is a good thing, but the high-handed punitive attitude is dreadful.

I feel like I can't help anymore and need to back of this thread.

I feel our moment has passed too. Like everywhere else tge far right have taken over this thread.

fourmummy captainproton thanks for the link

This?

On New Year’s Eve, women across the EU were subjected to mass sex assaults. UK women must be free to travel, work and live without intimidation or sexual violence. We ask the Government to put measures in place which will prevent any future assaults.

This is an interesting article from the FT, especially the points raised in the comments section about the potential for slavery growing in Europe.

Glad to see they are keeping Cologne in the public debate arena too.

Ignoring vertigonun accusations that I sound like ukip.

I had another idea, bit of a tangent though. Maybe women need an organisation like Tell MAMA. Somewhere that we can report everyday harassment to be logged and counted. You know the sort of stuff like somebody putting their hands on you on the tube, rubbing their dick and watching you while you walk down the street. The sort of stuff you wouldn't go to the police about because it's such a common occurrence we're trained to be used to it and so just can't be bothered. Nothing would be done anyway even if we did.

Something easy, you just phone/email tell them what happened and they record it and report numbers annually?

Like everywhere else tge far right have taken over this thread.

If that's directed at me you obviously know nothing about me.

Reluctantly returning to this thread, having blocked previous one.

I haven't read previous thread re petition etc., but I see that a more emphatic statement needs to be formulated.

Just 2 questions:
Do you feel that this is a male phenomenon?
Do you feel that this is a cultural problem?
Do you consider this mass attack as an attack on women?
Do you consider this mass attack as an attack on the West?

Depending on your answers to the above, you may be able to word a more incisive statement for your petition(s).

As things stand, it reads a lot like.......... 'Women attacked. Mysogengy. Immigrants. Protect all women from mysogeny. Immigrants/and ALL men are bad. Discuss'.

You're at risk of trying to address a specific issue in non-specific terms. Dancing around the issue a little, much as the media and politicians have been forced to.

Just my tuppence worth.

Also, as I said way way back on one of the earlier threads, you would be surprised by who would respond. I see a lot of you are with NF lol. Maybe try to align the rest of his policies to the left and he'd become a more realistic voting option! lol

Eh.... that would be 4 questions.....

I think we're missing one salient point - all sections of our community who wish to conduct law abiding lives have the right to live their lives in safety, free from harassment from any other human being. It doesn't matter what the harasser's creed, colour or race is, just human on human. It just needs to be looked at and for someone to say we will tackle it in the best way we can. We are just asking for women to be safe and feel free, not for anything at the expense of other sections of the community. I don't hate all men, immigrants or anybody else much - I reserve my anger for prawn and red cabbage curry!

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/discrimination/hate-crime/what-are-hate-incidents-and-hate-crime/

Yes I know it's disappointing that the petition was rejected. Don't let this set you all back and flatten your moods everyone!

Good groundwork has been done and even these threads have effected change in attitudes. It's ALL good stuff. I wouldn't be surprised if Cameron's people check in with these Mumsnet's views.

Keep this thing going - give yourselves time to re-think it and re-group.

I think you're all marvelous!!

This one?

On New Year’s Eve, women across the EU were subjected to mass sex assaults. UK women must be free to travel, work and live without intimidation or sexual violence. We ask the Government to put measures in place which will prevent any similar future assaults.

• The 'New Year's Eve', 'EU' and 'similar' tag the culturally novel element of this without going into specifics
• 'measures' tags the demand for specific measures that a citizen should expect from their Government
• 'prevent' is a concrete aim that, again, any citizen has the right to expect from the official agencies experts who police our safety

As Inkata says, we are very much still in the moment. If the imams and whoever else can still discuss Cologne, then so can we and so can the petition.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3408033/Muslim-cleric-says-Cologne-sex-attacks-victims-fault-wore-PERFUME.html Giles the Guardian Anglican Vicar, can meet with his fellow religious victim blamer.