Brexit: what would happen to EU citizens living in UK?

[marghini]

I am a EU citizen and I have been living, working and paying taxes in the UK for a while.

I am really concerned about what would happen to the EU citizens who built a life for themselves and settled here in the UK in case of a Brexit.

Do you think all EU citizens already living in the UK would be pushed out? Or perhaps the government would just stop allowing further EU immigration?

missmachete give the length of time your partner has been in the UK, and that you will have 5 years by the time a brexit is finalised, I think you will be fine, though you can expect some paperwork if you have not been naturalised by then.

Having a British child makes no difference though - there are many families consisting of one British partner, one non-EU partner, and a British child who are not able to live together in the UK because the British partner does not earn enough.

Mistgri

You're nit-picking.

I said 'passport' because we do not have a culture of ID cards here in the UK. Perhaps I should type out passport-or-the-ID-cards-of-any-quailifying-person-under-free-movement-of-people-legislation

I think people would soon get bored reading that sort of post.

It's hard to have much confidence in anything you assert when you make such elementary errors.

There's a good old-fashioned saying "When you start taking flak you usually know you're on target". Let's try not to make this personal. It won't deter me from posting.

My own opinion is that any British expats who cannot document "regular residence" in an EU country risk being removed, and that there will be a steady trickle of the older, less linguistically-able and less employable Britons back to the mothership, because host countries will make life generally more difficult for these people.

Pure Project Fear scare-mongering when you've already been told that any country attempting to do that would be committing 'a crime against humanity' under the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court.

Are you saying that all these nice friendly EU partners of ours who make our lives safer, stronger and better would suddenly turn on vulnerable Brits abroad because we refused to them £55m a day? Surely not? If so, I think we ought to be seriously re-examining the company we keep and get out of the EU.

Pure Project Fear scare-mongering when you've already been told that any country attempting to do that would be committing 'a crime against humanity' under the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court.

Honestly, you're going to have to come up with better than that if you want to accuse people of this "project fear" nonsense. I suspect you have zero experience of living abroad and zero knowledge of international law, you're just spouting a kipper talking point.

I don't believe that EU countries are likely to remove UK citizens who are already regularly resident there (paying taxes, signed up to local social insurance schemes), or vice versa. However, anyone who is not already effectively documented in some way will effectively be a tourist, subject to whatever new rules come to regulate movement between the EU and the UK in the event of a Brexit. None of us know what these will be. One would assume that some sort of visa waiver scheme will be negotiated, and that visas won't be required, but no one knows yet. (Contrary to what you asserted on the previous page there are many countries in the world for which UK citizens require visas; I travel to a number of these for my work!)

Mistgri

Having a British child makes no difference though - there are many families consisting of one British partner, one non-EU partner, and a British child who are not able to live together in the UK because the British partner does not earn enough.

This is simply shameful.

Machete has told you that her son is British and that she and her husband are EU nationals resident in the UK.
Her son has an absolute and unalienable right to live in the UK. This is his 'home' country. He has a British passport. He cannot be deported.

As the parents of that British child, they too have an unalienable right to a family life - with that child, in his country of residence, the UK.

The example you quoted has no relevance whatsoever to Machete.

Machete

You and your husband and son all have a right to stay in the UK, now and after the UK leaves the EU. Please don't be worried by nonsense that may scare you into believing you cannot stay. You can., Full stop.

springing

You really are clueless about immigration law aren't you?

www.childrenscommissioner.gov.uk/news/skype-families

missmachete's right to reside in the UK has nothing to do with her having a British child, and everything to do with her already having established a right to reside in the UK. (I have said above that I do not think she has anything to worry about.)

SpringingIntoAction,

Thanks a lot for both compliments and information. It is very reassuring. I appreciate your time.

Regarding advantages- I was thinking about that for example it is quite expensive to train medical staff so by accepting foreign professionals - UK might save money on training, but I see your point about turning down staff from Non-eu which does not make sense then. I have a BA in social work from my country, basically I have spent 4 years in university to become a social worker (not just a course or training), and even though my diploma is from EU - I cannot be a qualified SW here as I need additional training and re-qualification, which I could never afford really, as my dream was to work as a SW here and now I guess it won't happen anyway if UK leaves EU, even with additional training.

Mistigri,
Thanks for your reply.
It will be 5 years in November only and by the new law you need to obtain a permanent resident card first then wait one year and only after that - to apply for naturalisation. All in all it will take me up to 2 years to get British passport- if everything will go smoothly.

....."having a british child makes no differences...."
This is what worries me too - an example you gave about families who cannot be together... This is very confusing for me, all that system and how it works and etc...

:(

missmachete I am confident that you do not have any reason to be concerned. Even if the referendum decides in favour of a brexit, there will be a two year negotiation period before the UK formally exits the EU.

Sorry, ladies, I am very slow in replying and reading, that's why there is a delay.

Thanks for your time and opinions!

Mistigri, thanks... I hope so too, I just need to force my husband to apply for that permanent thing asap, and he is so super slow!!!

Mistigri

*Pure Project Fear scare-mongering when you've already been told that any country attempting to do that would be committing 'a crime against humanity' under the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court.

Honestly, you're going to have to come up with better than that if you want to accuse people of this "project fear" nonsense. I suspect you have zero experience of living abroad and zero knowledge of international law, you're just spouting a kipper talking point.^

Oh I really am over the target now. The amount of incoming flak has increased spectacularly. Please explain what relevance these 'kippers' have to do with this discussion?

I don't believe that EU countries are likely to remove UK citizens who are already regularly resident there (paying taxes, signed up to local social insurance schemes), or vice versa.

That contradicts what you said earlier.

However, anyone who is not already effectively documented in some way will effectively be a tourist, subject to whatever new rules come to regulate movement between the EU and the UK in the event of a Brexit. None of us know what these will be. One would assume that some sort of visa waiver scheme will be negotiated, and that visas won't be required, but no one knows yet. (Contrary to what you asserted on the previous page there are many countries in the world for which UK citizens require visas; I travel to a number of these for my work!)

So much wrong with the above I'm not wasting too much time on it. Why should a 'visa waiver scheme' be negotiated. There no assumption that in the event of a Brexit that a visa would be required. we have visa free travel to many (now) EU countries before EU membership, we will have that again.
Regarding the need or otherwise for visas in the rest of the world

1. it's not relevant
2. you are misquoting what you claim I asserted. I chose my words carefully

You know nothing of my experiences or otherwise of living abroad and you are going to remain ignorant on that point, despite demanding that I reveal it on a public forum.

You know nothing about any legal training I have had and on that point too, you will remain ignorant.

It's always more effective in any discussion to discuss the subject instead of being rude about the poster. If people cannot abide by that I stop discussing things with them

As the parents of that British child, they too have an unalienable right to a family life - with that child, in his country of residence, the UK.

It is worth noting that the government wishes to remove the Human Rights Act and replace it with something else.

It is also worth noting that "right to a family life" is one of the articles that folk get up in arms about because the UK sometimes cannot deport criminals as they have family in the UK...

MissMachete
^Sorry, ladies, I am very slow in replying and reading, that's why there is a delay.

Thanks for your time and opinions^

Ignore what Mistigri said about having a British baby not making a difference. Having a British baby in your circumstances makes a huge difference and Mistgri said later that they too thought your application would be just fine. It will. If you are still worried you could go to your local Citizens Advice Bureau and ask how you will be affected - this is a free service and will give you impartial honest advice about how this will affect you. But you have nothing to worry about at all.

I hope you and your husband both receive the naturalisations you want and have a very happy life together in the UK.

springing you've been caught out now in a number of factual inaccuracies suggesting that your knowledge of immigration law and procedures is lacking. I'm not sure why anyone would take you seriously?

I've said throughout that I am reasonably confident that EU immigrants in the UK, and UK immigrants in the EU, are unlikely to face removal unless undocumented (ie no record of having been regularly resident). This may apply to more people than you think - I know a fair few retired people who spend 6 months a year in the EU but do not pay local income taxes and rely on their EHIC card for medical treatment. Their only link to their host country is that they are propery owners. These people may be in for a surprise.

Regarding visas, the UK has been part of the EU and, previously, the EC, for most of my life (I'm 51). If there is a brexit we wil be a member of neither. Neither you nor I know what documentation would be required to travel to the EU in the case of a brexit; as I said above, one would assume that some sort of visa waiver scheme would be put in place, as for UK visitors to the USA, but until such an arrangement is agreed we simply don't know.

Thank you!!!

Mistgri

I am asking you nicely to stop calling me stupid and clueless.

I am asking you to stop sending me links to websites that are absolutely nothing to so with this discussion and relate to the residency rights of non-EU parents. we are discussing the residency rights of EU parents.

I consider your personal attacks on me because a support a different viewpoint from you constitute harassment and bullying.

I hope you are really proud of the fact that you managed to get the EU migrant mother of a British born baby very worried about her immigration status.

Don't expect me to respond to you again. I have reported your bullying to Mumsnet.

I just came back to this thread and I found out that it has been "resumed" after the announcement of the referendum's date, and understandably so.

I am still worried and this whole Brexit situation makes me feel quite nervous to be honest.

Worst case scenario, EU immigrants will be required to go through the same papererwork as non EU immigrants. In thay case I assume I will apply for a partner visa (DP id British) or get married and apply for citizenship.

However I understand that for many EU immigrants that is not an option and honestly this uncertainty is awful and feels quite unfair.

I came to the UK to work and to contribute, I pay loads of taxes and now I feel like an unwelcomed burden that the UK can't wait to get rid of

It seems to me the people calling for a Brexit think we are living in 1976, and they can just vote to undo 40+ years of progress.

Have all the countries that aren't in the EU stayed in 1976?

marghini I think there are only two possible scenarios - that the UK will enter an EEA-type arrangement (implying continued free movement of labour) or that we will be treated the same as other immigrants from outside Europe in terms of the paperwork required. The authorities will need to establish which foreigners have the right to stay ie those who have already established residency rights. They can't do this without paperwork.

I'm anticipating requiring a residency card and possibly a work visa, like my American friends here in France. We are unlikely to get naturalised in time, although both our children should be (this is my priority, as DD is considering studying in Spain).

Marghini

No point getting married for citizenship purposes - it doesn't gain you any citizenship rights in the UK. Wives / partners are treated the same for these purposes

There is a superb debate taking place in Parliament on membership of the EU right now. Sky channel 502 Freeview 131

It is worth noting that the government wishes to remove the Human Rights Act and replace it with something else.

They would like to write a British Bill of Rights.

The British Bill of Rights is just as much a fudge as Cameron's deal.

A British Bill of Rights would reduce our rights - not add to them.

The beauty of having an unwritten British Constitution is that you can do anything you want - until someone tells you that you can't.

That's freedom.

With our 'rights' enshrined in a British Bill of Rights, it means that you would only be able to do things that are specified in that Bill of Rights and to do anything outside of that wouldn't be permitted.

That's actually a restriction of freedom.

So, in order to try to get around Human Rights law the Government thinks it needs to reduce the rights of the British people.

You couldn't make it up

spring you actually qualify for citizenship if you marry a British citizen and live in the UK for three years, either before or after the wedding.

Not that the idea of getting married to get a passport sounds particularly appealing to me..

Source: www.gov.uk/becoming-a-british-citizen/if-your-spouse-is-a-british-citizen

Sorry Marghini I was thinking about residency, not citizenship. My child and his non-EU partner sought legal advice about marrying to permit them to stay in the UK together but were told it had no effect on residency. Citizenship is different.

Why should anything happen to,you if you are already living no and working in this country. Might you are happy in your work I'm sure they will be happy with you and nothing should change . If you have made this your home and have friend s I'm quite sure they would object strongly if anything was going to but it shouldnt. Not many people even understand the EU or in this. Country or any other and that's how they all love to keep it their own secret society which is the most dangerous part of it. Did you know that most of what Cameron has won he has only won for 4 years when he was asking for 18 - nobody is advertising that fact it will just be somebody else's problem when he stands down which he has already announced. Don't worry get on with your life and be happy in the UK don't believe the stupid scare tactics which is all they are.