Mass sexual assaults in Cologne and other European cities part IV

[VertigoNun]

The reports of attacks on Women in NYE, are in their hundreds.

TwistedReach: "I want women to be safe. And my heart breaks at the idea that this group of men and their terrible acts".

But Twisted these men are from the same part of the world as you, you have seen groping and worse while growing up and perhaps even joined in (?) Do you honestly think that that behaviour will just fall away?

Twisted over 2 million Syrians have been saved and are living in the wider MENA region; under 30 000 have come to Europe. However, Merkel's opening of the border encouraged people to spend the last of their life savings to make a difficult and dangerous journey that was not necessary as they were already in safety: none of those Syrian refugees were coming directly from the coast of Syria, but through other routes to the Med. This was reckless endangerment at best.

What it did do was encourage tens of thousands of others to try to move into the EU - as UNHCR figures show us, the majority of those claim to be Kosovars, who outnumber the Syrians by more than 2 to 1. It's not as straightforward as all the media soundbites would have you believe, and not all of the refugees are refugees in the legal definition - many, including a number of the Syrians, are actually migrants.

It's disingenuous to try to separate this issue of migration from the issue of culture, I am afraid, however palatable politically that might be.

'I can understand how even harder it would be in a land where the laws would also support the silver backs and not only the civil laws but compound that with religious ones. The women in my family had little power, these women have even less. The men have it all.'

Which women Willbeat? From where? It's kind of ambiguous. In which places do you think men have all the power?

Excellent work, all those researchers and translators.

Can't decide if I'm relieved not to be the boy shouting at the emperor or heartbroken that all those women are being attacked because the men know the authorities are quite literally turning a blind eye.

Vertigo, who profits from that?

What we need to do as women, is to work with our sisters Europe-wide and internationally to develop, establish and strengthen our rights as women, and to work for the social equalities that benefit everyone, not just women and girls

Deedee, yes!

Do any other old gimmers remember the heady days of anti-apartheid action?

This is the same thing. Our fellow humans, because of the genitals they were born with, are being subjected to abject lives with no freedoms (driving, voting) and unchecked, institutionalised and culturally sanctioned abuse.

And now it's coming to a public place hear you.

So that might be a focus?

We could maybe also start lobbying hard for our government (and the EU if we stay) to boycott countries who abuse women's rights in the same way apartheid abused the rights of non-whites.

Anyone who attempts to silence that debate is clearly sexist.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'someone like you would be all over it.' I am disgusted by the assults. I also recognise that there has been a problem with this in Germany for years

You do, your just trying to be obtuse, there have been many direct questions asked of you but you skirt around the issue.

I will put it as plainly as I can, if there was recent uptick in sexual assaults that the local police refer to as a potential phenoman (as referred to in the article I posted by 2 separate news sources and translated to the best of my ability) was carried out by any other demographic other than 'foreign/refugee' you would not try and minimise/compare or contrast the assaults, I would suggest you would not be trying so hard to not see a common trait in the suspects, and maybe even start broad brushing yourself.

Ego absolutely honestly? You do what the UK has been doing, and flood the host countries in the region with money, to help create an acceptable life for the refugees within camps. It's not as sexy, but it does more "good" in that it prevents problems like these, and creates the potential for them to return "home" when that's possible. The South Sudanese lived in camps for 24 years - it's not nice, but it allowed them to return in large numbers to create a new nation (and wasn't the reason for the civil war afterwards). Statistically, people who are resettled in a third country (so not the country they initially flee to) don't return home - they might go back and visit, or volunteer, or own a property there: but they don't return to live there, or give up their third country citizenships etc

I am absolutely against people being killed - but I don't think the only solution is to send them to Europe/Canada/wherever: huge psychological issues around "home" develop in even second and third generation "refugees" and it's disingenuous of people to ignore this fact.

I lived in Germany over a decade ago and one of the things I loved about living there was the safety on the streets. I almost never got hassle when out and about at night-time. German men never once harassed or bothered me. They kept to themselves, especially on a physical level and were never over-familiar. On some occasions I would get hassle but it only ever happened from guys of Turkish-appearance in Turkish areas of the city but even then I could happily go to Turkish restaurants, the big Turkish market and so on and never had a problem. Street harassment was rare and unusual.

So this is not a typical problem in Germany at all. There is sexism in German culture, yes, but overall it was a safe country for women. This is a new problem and the crowds ganging up on women and isolating and assaulting them is definitely new. If people want to deny that they can but it doesn't help anyone except the criminals who want to disturb the peace of German society and intimidate women.

Thank you Polen, it ties together much of the information I have read over the past few weeks in one place.

Very brave women.

As I said earlier, I understand to a very small degree what its like to be trapped and powerless in a jungle of a family home with silver back men.

I can imagine to a degree having the law against us as well as the religion. Its too much.

Which women Willbeat? From where? It's kind of ambiguous. In which places do you think men have all the power?

this is the last time I engage with you, pretty much everywhere men have the power in the world.

But in the countries listed in foreignpolicy.com/2012/04/23/why-do-they-hate-us/ explains it.

"Do any other old gimmers remember the heady days of anti-apartheid action?

This is the same thing. Our fellow humans, because of the genitals they were born with, are being subjected to abject lives with no freedoms (driving, voting) and unchecked, institutionalised and culturally sanctioned abuse."

I have always though this, thank you Olive.

Woman dragged screaming into subway. German people, can you confirm this is Cologne. It's on youtube as being there

'Not agreeing with you does not mean trying to shut you up. Telling everyone to not engage with us and calling us trolls was exactly that'.

Very true Twisted. As I said before, it seems odd that women that claim to support women's rights were so quick to resort childishness, pettiness and bullying to intimidate others into shutting up. I suppose it just shows that they are frightened by what we are saying.

'What about all of the thousands of lives saved by allowing syrians to escape death? That is a direct and clear result of allowing refugees to have asylum'.

It was courageous and it was right. When I look back at this epoch changing time I will probably still feel the shame and disgust I feel for Cameron now. Germans can look back with pride at what Merkel did.

Ego a tiny tiny minority have done some terrible acts. It sounds as if it is not entirely clear if they were refugees. But as I said on the last thread, I think that atrocity does not come from nowhere. If a tiny tiny proportion of people whose lives and minds have been smashed to pieces, turn to smashing others, it does not surprise me. It happens in Europe, it would be surprising if it didn't happen in Africa and the middle east. That is not an excuse. It is not minimising. It does not mean we need to be scared of refugee men.

I think integration may will need help. But we know that turning our backs can only lead to further suffering.

Egosumquisum Where do you stand now with regard to your vociferous objections a few months back to David Cameron's pledge to bring over a few thousand Syrian refugees over five years? You seemed to think then that it was far too few and over far too long a period, and that Angela Merkl had the right idea by welcoming hundreds of thousands at once.

That's a hell of an article

Dunno what to say except it mirrors what I've read in books and accounts from other Muslim women and also western women who were married to Muslim men. The accounts are horrifying.

Seconding the cry to read the FP link above.

I absolutely recognise and applaud every brave word of it.

I'm surprised by how moved I am, perhaps because I have experienced so much of what she describes, may I assure you how courageous Ms Eltawahy really is.

Wow.

The English sign (no smoking) makes me doubt it's Cologne

'This is the same thing. Our fellow humans, because of the genitals they were born with, are being subjected to abject lives with no freedoms (driving, voting) and unchecked, institutionalised and culturally sanctioned abuse."

Which fellow humans? From where?

Fuck sake. Who is not going to be horrified by that? Woman or Man?

I don't think I'm going to sleep tonight

I am actually beginning to think that certain posters on this and the last thread have done us a favour.

Despite the robot like output by aforementioned poster(s) we are still discussing this with more people contributing so intelligently and kindly and many more are probably probably reading with interest. What we are discussing makes sense and it will make sense to many reading this. On the other hand what certain poster(s) write is predictable and unconvincing. They have not managed to derail, after all.

It is my believe that these threads present a powerful discussion and have already influenced some of the reporting on the topic in the UK.

Let's keep going .

I thought that too Dorothy and that's why I asked but there is another word to the right, which could be German? Don't know, have never been in Cologne, don't know what their signage is like

That video is shocking -utterly shocking- but doubt it's cologne - there's Arabic writing on the white sign.

lily, Ego acknowledged a while ago that the evidence she has seen has caused her to question her previous assumptions, and has been questioning how to reconcile the competing rights of refugees and women.