Quick Poll: EU stay or leave?

[BlueSmarties76]

Would you vote to stay or leave the EU?

Quick poll.

It's not there, Mouse as any decent visit to Asia/Africa/S America with their young, often v well educated populations, their vast natural resources would teach you otherwise. As would any decent business school education or even a regular browse through the business pages of a broadsheet rather than DM

wanting OUT is cross party!

Yes, I agree. There's definitely no need to be a UKipper! There are many left-wing arguments to support leaving the EU.

The Independent - Why Leaving the EU is a Left-Wing Move

Wales Online - The left-wing argument for leaving the EU burns with passion - and has done for decades

Labour Leave

The Left-Wing Case for Brexit

The Left Must Put Britain's EU Withdrawal on the Agenda

Stay

I think not letting economic migrants swarm into this country unchecked will do any good for our environment for several reasons.

Swarm is a very contentious word. Economic migrants are not allowed in unchecked now. Why would that change if we left the EU?

Let us take our country back. I never voted for what we have now. No one did. It's a ludicrous situation. Taking our begging bowl to Brussels . Who made merkal queen of Europe? . It's an outrage. I pray with all my heart we leave this monstrous club

If you are offended by my ukip reference then maybe you need to read around the issue a bit more. A lot of the comments on here read like ukip propoganda.

Yes I do think much of the anti EU rhetoric is driven by an anti immigration viewpoint. This thread is a case in point.

Agree, Tilder

And as for Merkel "queen of Europe"?

Can't have it both ways, so on the one hand, dodgy foreigners are holding our economy back, on the other Germany is so strong that they're taking us over...

Rational, reasoned debate would be good, but v little I've read here has changed my staunch pro-Europe stance.

Perhaps you don't read much political information then - the wish to leave Europe is widespread cross party issue - even Labour MPs have their own campaign in the planning. Very lazy or rather unread to imagine these issues are just UKIP, beginning to sound as if you only read Daily Mail maybe? Perhaps listen to Gisela Stuart or Gisela Stuart - both labour.

Kate Hoey should say

Leave

No, as I said not remotely offended. Don't really do being offended myself, but my point is it appears that you believe it is a slur to say someone is a UKIPPER.

Generally it's a way of shutting down debate ie to say *** (insert 'perceived' insult of choice").

School playground style debating - oppose someone's views by all means, but maybe with something little more inventive and certainly informed than "you sound like ukippers".....

It's as if you don't seem to grasp it is, and has always been, a cross party issue. Even to interpret UKIP as immigration only party, is not grasping that they formed in 1991 to fight the unelected in Brussels having final say on British future - to challenge the federalism that is at the heart of the EU project.

Uncontrolled EU migrants arriving hadn't happened back in 1991 - lack of control on final say of our own country was the issue. Sovereignty IS the issue-EU migrant workers is just one of the ways loss of sovereignty is enacted in our every day lives from 2004 onwards competing with our lower paid workers.

So, personally I am thankful to UKIP efforts in getting us to a referendum.

However as a conservative voter I am looking forward to seeing on Friday as to who will stand by their principles and back up what they've said for 20 odd years regarding EU.

I think swarm is exactly the right word - contentious or otherwise.

I'm still interested to hear tilder's response to the questions I asked in an earlier post. Can you please give examples of of the UK's opportunities on the global stage purely as a result of being in the EU? Also, explain how the EU helps our environment? You said both were important enough for us to stay in so I'm interested - who knows, I could change my mind. Thanks.

PS - I don't care if you taunt us with being ukippers. I'm not but can think of worse insults, like being a labour supporter

Leave "Europe" should read "EU" clearly - will always be part of Europe an

Could even forge new trade agreements (once they stop threatening us and accept they need us more than we need them).

I've always told my children not to give into bullies and certainly don't be swayed by threats - bullies are always insecure of their position and weak people..... sound familiar?

EU really shouldn't add threatening us to the long list of ignoring us; dismissing us; roughshod over any concerns; pat us on the head as "those English eccentrics" before carrying on regardless.

Now we are finding our voice they are threatening that they will make it as difficult as possible to survive without them ... Sounds like an abusive marriage to me. I think we will get along just fine without that partner in our ear telling us "we are useless without them".

Moving : I think "dodgy foreigners " quote from you is much funnier than "queen of Europe" for Merkel that you were ridiculing. No one has said "dodgy foreigners" other thank you. I assume you mean the free movement of EU people's to work?

If your intention is to dismiss the experience of people who have had their lives affected by uncontrolled EU movement as mere reactionaries who use phrases such as "dodgy foreigners", then that really isn't debating - that is attempting to shut down debate - see above.

Yes I'm interested to hear from people who believe their every day lives have been enhanced from EU membership.

The trade and political issues will be dealt with as the scaremongering they are over the next few months.

However, who is currently benefitting from situation? People owning companies are taking larger profits rather than sharing it/investing/valuing their staff? The money would still be spent in the economy, just not horded at the top of the tree so much.

conservative voters seem to care more for the lower paid than the tony Blair supporters.

totally split on this. Both leaving and staying has positives and negatives, but neither option would send us back the dark ages, we'd just have to deal with our lot and get on with it. But as a supporter of Scottish independence, personally am hoping for an English yes to leave vote and a Scottish no to stay vote (in the hope that it brings Scottish independence back on the menu). The Scottish vote i think is expected, there is a large majority to stay. Ive not seen the English equivalent yet, is it about 50/50%?

Sorry, should have said that on that basis , id vote to stay.

More and more poorer countries are applying to join the EU. Are we expected to pay?

Definitely want to leave.

But Scotland would then have to saddle up to the EU. Soctland would just be another tiny country in the EU and controlled by Brussels and with it have even less local democracy that Scotland so seemingly craves. I really don't understand why Scotland want to leave the UK but be in the EU.

With Scotland, leaving the UK is an anti-English thing IME. Growing up there, people were always telling each other stories of how ill the English treated them, and how the brave Scots "stood against them" at Bannockburn etc. The unofficial national anthem is all about relations with England and that's not a coincidence.

'I really don't understand why Scotland want to leave the UK but be in the EU.'

No I don't - does anybody know?

I can understand why they were pissed off with England and the pomposity of Westmister behaviour.

All the scare-mongering from the 'remain' camp is making me more determined than ever to vote 'leave'. Does anyone else feel that the they're getting worried that the 'quiet Conservatives' who were ignored by the pollsters last May will all quietly turn up again and vote 'leave'?

My parents, who own a property in Europe and have shares in Eurotunnel are going to vote 'leave'. I think a lot of older people are sick to the back teeth of the EU over-turning decisions made by our elected and appointed officials and they well remember Britain before we were beholden to Brussels and know we'll be just fine on our own.

There is a comment in the Telegraph today giving a schedule for all the scare-mongering events that will take place in the next four months. I bet some of them happen too.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/12156976/EU-referendum-19-weeks-the-Remain-campaign-hope-will-shake-the-naysayers.html

Brilliant Telegraph piece juneau, can't wait to tick those off the list . I bet Boris is chomping at the bit.

Re Scotland, David Cameron has ruled out another referendum until at least 2020. I know they hate the English and quite frankly if they stay or go, sink or swim, I simply don't care any more.

I'd hazard the guess that Scots want out of the UK because it is increasingly nothing more than a London city-state, run by the incredibly rich for the sole benefit of the incredibly rich. And then stay in the EU because of the trade benefits to a small country. I can sympathise being northern English from a poor background.

Those worried about UK sovereignty, which sovereignties do you want back? I worry that it's the right to grind poorer folk further into the dust. Most of our worker protections come from Europe at the moment. It's all very well saying we can make our own, but will we? At the moment we do not have a functioning democracy, poorer folk have had no voice at least since Blair took over the Labour party, and the Tories are busy trying to remove the vote from those who might vote against them and redraw boundaries to suit them, etc.

"People owning companies are taking larger profits rather than sharing it/investing/valuing their staff? The money would still be spent in the economy, just not horded at the top of the tree so much. "

I really don't see how anyone can say that this is the EUs fault, rather than the local UK government. We are the most unequal country in Europe. It is not France and Germany forcing hoards of wealth to accumulate at the top in the UK, they are far more equal than we are.

which sovereignties do you want back?

Well let's start with the sovereignty of our own legal system shall we? I'm sick of hearing that decisions made by British judges have been overturned by the European Court of Appeal in favour of foreign criminals who cannot be deported due to their 'human rights'. I'm in favour of a British Bill of Rights being drawn up and when it comes to legal matters our own courts' decisions should stand.