Quick Poll: EU stay or leave?

[BlueSmarties76]

Would you vote to stay or leave the EU?

Quick poll.

But it only gives us a bigger presence on the world stage if we genuinely have our views represented, and I do not think we do. I have the impression that the pro-EU people in Brussels decide for us and if the UK tries to dissent they just smirk or look a bit irritated as if we are off on one again and ignore us.
Britain is part of the Commonwealth. It has deep and historical links with many countries around the world. We had to give up a lot of the Commonwealth trade in order to join the EU. We are attractive as a European base to American and Chinese companies because we have a skilled workforce with a low strike record and their executives can communicate easily with their employees here thanks to us speaking English.
Additionally, we are a country with nuclear weapons.

I really think that all adds up to our voice on the world stage being greater if we are outside if the EU than the tiny fraction we are allocated within it.

Ah yes little england who no one had ever heard of before ...being projected at last onto the world stage!

Maybe its history lessons that are lacking here?

why would anyone think this?

There are hundreds of small countries in the world, none of them as well known on the global stage as Britain.

We are already already known. We do not need the EU for this and we never joined the EU for this reason although maybe smaller countries joined, we joined for trade things.

We are attractive as a European base to American and Chinese companies because we have a skilled workforce with a low strike record and their executives can communicate easily with their employees here thanks to us speaking English

yes AND the city is frequently referred to as leading finance center in the world.

Its also frequently said that Germany and France will be the greatest looser without US the THIRD BIG NAME at the EU TABLE.

Its them who have the most to loose not US!

Very true var. And at least on our own we'd be representing our own views, rather than lumped in with all the various views of the EU (none of whom can agree on anything, it seems).

tilder
People have bought into the anti immigration rhetoric and cannot see beyond that. Being part of Europe makes us stronger. It's better for our environment. It provides us immense opportunities on the global stage. But let's just bang on about immigration because that's the only thing that matters shall we? Seriously? Has everyone turned into a ukip voter?

I personally haven't bought into any rhetoric - non-immigration or otherwise and your comment insinuates that Out voters have only come to their decision because of recent events. I have always wanted to vote Out when given the opportunity.

However, I do think it will become increasingly important that we control our own borders, thus enabling us to take genuine refugee families and not hordes of male economic migrants from assorted parts of the world. Nor do I want to see our green belt/countryside tarmac'd over thank you very much.

Immense opportunities on the global stage? Really? Can you give us some examples please? The UK is a member of NATO, G8, G5 and I'm sure many other world organisations which don't immediately spring to mind. They were members before joining the EU and will continue to be so after we leave.

I think not letting economic migrants swarm into this country unchecked will do any good for our environment for several reasons. Please give us some examples of how the EU aids our environment? I can't think of a single thing.

As for the UKIP, I have never personally voted for them, being a true blue Tory but if people wish to vote for them, that is entirely their business.

I am really surprised how many posters are saying leave on this thread. 5 years ago MN was awash with people saying "I'm with Nick", so it's quite a sea change. If MN is like this then what about the rest of the country?

Opinions on MN Talk seem to have been drifting rightward on a lot of issues for a while now. I'm not sure if it reflects a change in attitudes or a change of the demographic of people who use this site. Would be interesting to know, but not sure how it could be checked.

I agreeNotDavidTennant that there does appear to have been a small drift to the right but MN is still heavily left leaning, including MNHQ themselves. I think there's a way to go before we even reach, say, 50/50 but live in hope

Agree entirely Rorty, to lazily accuse everyone of being a ukipper because they believe membership of the EU is not to our benefit, sounds like someone who swallowed a book of rhetoric themselves.

I have also always wanted out and the unchecked ability of EU members to come and settle here has merely confirmed everything I thought ie Beitiain will lose self determination.

I was thankful when we, at least, didn't take on the Euro (despite all the scaremongering at the time that we were 'doomed' by not being part of it etc - sound familiar?).

I am yet to hear anything other than grandiose statements of "world stage" blah de blah but no actual examples of how EU membership has benefitted us.

As for trade etc it is scare mongering, we now export more outside the EU than into the EU. Even Boris repeated that fact on Sunday Politics earlier today and from an officiall on the fence position currently). Boris also said we would be fine in or out.

Loved Gisela Stuart (Labour MP and German) who challenged Philip Hammond today on Andrew Marr - he was claiming the proposed four year benefits changes couldn't be challenged in the European Court of Justice and overturned in a year's time.

Hammond claimed that it didn't require a treaty change to be enforced as it would be agreed that a head of state's decision "would be taken into account". Gisela rubbished this as she said with her legal training that was entirely open to interpretation and of no use without the treaty change - that is to say Britain cannot make our own laws!

I was very disappointed in Hammond's stance - his closing comment today was that the other EU countries would be difficult to deal with if we left; we should just accept our position of being blackmailed into staying. Great foreign policy that, not.

The EU export more to us than we do to them now. I really don't think the EU will wish to lose our trade.

I put undecided earlier. I want to upgrade that back to pro-EU. Because the biggest enemy faced by the ordinary people of Britain is not immigrants (which leaving the EU won't affect much anyway) but our own government, who are busy destroying people's wages, job security, family lives, while deliberately forcing up the cost of living. The floods and associated flood defence cuts show how little they care for anyone living outside London. The dismantling of the welfare state shows how little they care for anyone not born into the correct rich families. They're moving us back to the Victorian age they've always raved about. In a year or two when they can no longer hide this with smoke and figures, when the entire economy collapses because no one has any money to move around, we will desperately need the EUs help.

The Commonwealth? I keep seeing pro-leavers going on about the Commonwealth, and it's always made me laugh. We're not an empire now, all those children countries have gone away and made their own lives in their own places. They don't us anything and will not come zooming round to help the motherland. The Commonwealth will not save us, it's gone.

We are part of the commonwealth, not the motherland to it. Those countries still choose to belong to it.

But what are they belonging to exactly and why, and do you really think they would welcome moves for closer links by a historical imperialist oppressor who's just chucked one set of toys out of their pram? Why would then and what would it cost us? Really not convinced.

Should clarify one point. I've noticed the 'mumsmet turning into ukippers' is clearly meant as a derogatory comment - implying people who wish to leave base their view of the world on sensationalist headlines etc.

I should like to say, although a conservative voter all my life, I am well aware that the referendum has been the result of years of pressure from UKIP.

It should be noted that UKIP were formed long before the open borders issue arose. They stood for returning powers to Britain from unelected Brussels bureaucrats and questioning the whole gravy train element of the EU. The immigration issue presented itself along the way. UKIP didn't form to fight immigration, it was to question and challenge EU rulings and leave the EU.

I am grateful to the UKIP efforts in opening up this debate. Personally, I don't take offence to the poster using UKIP comment as shorthand for
"we shoukd be ashamed of ourselves and decide EU is great after all rather than align ourselves with UKIP policy'.

I would much rather a questioning party stance than Labour policy when in government 'do as we say' and 'no you don't get to have an opinion on EU'. Labour government treated us like children and UKIP asked the awkward questions.

Will be interesting in to see the Laboir politicians speaking for an out soon. I've been impressed with Kate Hoey and Gisela Stuart.

Quite agree Oldzebra. I missed the Andrew Marr show this morning so just watched on iplayer. Hammond is on a hiding to nothing and what he said was pretty meaningless. It doesn't matter what dregs DC manages to get from the EU it will be insufficient. Just waiting now for him to go through the motions, so Boris can then take leadership of the Leave group and move it forward.

BungoWomble thanks for the political broadcast on behalf of the Labour Party, or should that be the Marxist Party?

As Var says, we are a part of the Commonwealth and long may it continue. I don't think anyone is suggesting the UK is in any way superior. It's like a big family, relationships between countries differ and change.

Roll on next week.

Stay, of course! We're a tiny little island hdmging off the tip of mainland Europe at a time of major crises- dealing with influx of refugees, competing in an increasingly globalised, competitive market etc etc. Only sane way is in union with our nearest neighbours,

Bungo: we'd need the EU help? Have you seen the state of the economies in the Euro zone- massive unemployment in Italy, Spain, Greece - borders being closed between Denmark and Sweden. Poland seems to have exported lots of their graduates to come and do menial jobs in Britain at cheaper rates.

The world economy will be in trouble over next few years for sure, but eurozone will be much worse hit by it than we are, due to starting from a weaker position. We won't need their help.

The reason our workers are now treated as disposable items is because of the endless supply of new employees arriving here. Without that endless supply companies would have to invest in training the young again ie on the job etc. give people some reasons to stay working for them etc.

The whole EU freedom of movement appears to have put us back to Victorian times - rich factory owner getting much richer and the worker bees used up and spat out. Can't ask to be trained up on the job for promotion as over their shoulder is someone waiting to jump into that job with rubbish terms and conditions and no promotion prospects.

Cross posted with yours oldzebra. You're absolutely right - I may not vote UKIP or agree with some of their quite frankly barmy policies but I am grateful to them for pressing as hard as they have for a referendum.

Also agree it will be interesting to see other labour MPs coming out of the woodwork to support Out.

I just want the whole thing to start happening - getting impatient. I'm 70 and will be beyond furious if I drop dead before I can cast my Out vote.

So you complain about closer links with the likes of Poland and Estonia but think closer ties with countries such as Pakistan, Rwanda, Seychelles, Belize will somehow help?

We are the most unequal country in Europe, it is not just people from East Europe who are forcing down wages. The disparity in income within our own borders is quite sufficient. And the politics is my own poor vision from low down the social pile.

As for Europe's economy being weaker than ours, it's difficult to tell the reality underneath all the British lies and spin. But outside London and the south east our towns look increasingly ghost-like. I suspect central Europe at least is based on something more real than anything we have here and will outlast us. Perhaps they won't help us much but it will be more than we get from anyone else.

We're a tiny little island hdmging off the tip of mainland Europe

This tiny little island has been more than capable of holding its own in this world for a very long time.

Leave. the PM spends too much of his time already up merkel and the others arses that he cant see what needs doing in THIS country for Its people.

UK is separated by a band of water as it is, we are NOT connected to Europe.

I've noticed the 'mumsmet turning into ukippers' is clearly meant as a derogatory comment - implying people who wish to leave base their view of the world on sensationalist headlines etc

wanting OUT is cross party! shows the ignorance of the poster and as someone said - swallowed some rhetoric and mindlessly spewing it out.

Well I think this is relevant actually, because I know a lots of Europeans who have moved here to live and work, yet I can't think of one Brit of working age who has moved to Europe and is still there working, right now.

why not go with the official figures rather than your anecdotal evidence?

I suspect without looking, that we get a lot of workers and a lot of retirees go to Europe on account of the weather.

I am not convinced by free movement, however. What I do think is that we are going to get a worse deal than we have right now because we will likely get out of free movement (to appease the public here) but will have free financial movement. Companies will leave because of us exiting the common market, as well as companies going to places where labour is much cheaper.

In empire days, yes, Mouse but against China? Even Africa, the BRIC countries? No way. Very outdated view.

No, not outdated at all!!

Cant be bothered to gather links etc but its all there.