Mass sexual assaults in Cologne and other European cities part III

[GeekLove]

link to part 2

Keeping this in the spotlight since the mainstream media isn't.

It's not the responsibility of women in Europe to be at the sharp end of "understanding" this - understanding what, exactly? That a bunch of young men with horrific attitudes of misogyny towards women, planned a mass sexual attack against them?

Well put Slaggy. I don't think there's a single man in our western world who would think they had to rationalise or modify their own behaviour in their own country.

Which makes the mayor's words all the more reprehensible. I'm glad the German women are answering back.

EU stay or leave, quick poll:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/2545490-Quick-Poll-EU-stay-or-leave?watched=1&msgid=58575828#58575828

I think if we want it not to happen again- then yes we need to try to understand it.

Exactly 2016. When will authorities learn that they can't cover things up and sweep them under the table, however inconvenient and difficult they are? They might not be found out at the time, but eventually it comes to light. I've just been reading extracts of the recent government investigation into Rotherham Council. Shocking level of deceit and lack of accountability at all levels.

www.dw.com/en/german-justice-minister-cologne-attacks-planned-in-advance/a-18969653

bungo, thank you I missed that article.

Do we know whether our government has a view/policy on refugee/immigrant gender ratio/bias?

Are figures available/even collected on the gender if those coming direct from Syria? Families? Age of children? Single men?

And that's before we look at the issues of sexist attitudes and practices of 2-3rd generation immigrants.

Is that a separate issue? Does it muddy the water to conflate that and Cologne or are we looking at bigger picture stuff with regard to protecting European women's rights?

Here's a link to carlajean's thread in Sitestuff asking for media representatives to come and explain their blackout. www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/2545396-Can-a-representative-from-the-BBC-and-Guardian-be-called-to-do-a-webchat-to-discuss-events-in-Cologne-on-NYE?watched=1&msgid=58575577#58575577

SlaggyIsland, surely for anything to change there does need to be examination of why men do this and attempts to seek understanding. Is it so wrong to seek to understand why men feel entitled to women's bodies? Is it wrong to examine patriarchy and misogyny and look for answers? This is in no way minimising or excusing it. The same patterns of misogyny and hate that led to those men in Cologne thinking they can attack women also placed blame sqaurely on victim's shoulders. Our rape culture sounds alarmingly similar to what is viewed as 'theirs'. Shifting attention to what is percieved as a greater outsider threat is misguided.

I don't want any men that rape and attack women in Europe. The women of E
have not had a taste of what life is like for 'them', they have had an experience of what has been going on in Germany for a long time.

You cannot support the women and children of 'these countries' without respecting their right to live as families.

Well said, SlaggyIsland.

Polenta, by all means polenta, tell me to toodle along, but you can't conceal the fact that you suggested someone should be raped for helping refugees.

Just one more thing.

Having spent the last week glued to this topic, my interim conclusion is:

• Support and accept refugees in an orderly and planned fashion, ideally women and children first following the Canadian model.

• Politicians and the Media must not turn a blind eye to women's freedom of movement and expression being stifled as a result of mass immigration from countries where women have fewer rights.

• A new public discourse needs to evolve where 'culture' clashes can be discussed in a constructive and transparent manner.

2♀16

Thanks Pink will work those into my letter.

There are plenty of vulnerable women and children in migrant camps, why isn't Europe making these a priority

We do already have the answer though. Patriarchy. Less bad in some countries. Worse in others.
I'm not sure what else there is to understand?
I'm not particularly enamoured with the rape culture in the West either but that is not what is being discussed here. The mass attacks on women in Cologne were unprecedented in terms of their scale and the blatantly public nature of the assaults. They immediately put me in mind of Tahir Square in Egypt.
So in the first instance, I'd like to see women's safety guaranteed. I'd like anyone found to be responsible for the assaults to be deported.
I'd like European countries to adopt a similar policy to Canada ie not allowing in single men or unaccompanied minors.

Pink yes that summarises my views and would be an excellent start.

I think if we want it not to happen again- then yes we need to try to understand

I believe I understand. I attended (Muslim) school, lived and worked in the ME over the past four decades.

I'm not going to list them here, but I have been a victim on many occasions of sexual assault by men because of my gender.

Even wearing an abaya.

I llove the freedom and rights and legal protection I have in the UK and want the next generations to have it too.

I fear it is under threat by backward-leaning left-wing vocal people who have no experience of how frightening it is to be raped by a group of men, be it with fingers or anything else.

A group whose sole terror is that of being thought racist.

And that terror blinds them to anything else happening in Europe as a result of disorganised immigration and the wilful decision to see sexism as an exotic 'other culture.'

I understand all too well and now I would like to act peacefully and powerfully to ensure my rights are no longer swept aside in favour of an agenda I do not subscribe to.

I will not be silenced by accusations of racism or hysteria or 'misunderstanding.'

I think I understand quite nicely thank you.

Amen olive!

Well said Olive.

No I didn't Emily as you well know but it doesn't stop you gunning for anyone in an attempt to derail this discussion.

Feel free to report that post, although I suspect you already have to no avail, proving that you are the only one who (willfully) wishes to misinterpret

I'm not going to reply to you again because you are starting to irritate me and I would rather focus my attention on the important issues that this thread raises.

Someone on thread II, I think, posted a very good description of how women's rights are seen as less important than a man's. I have searched and searched for it but cannot find. If you are the writer would you be kind enough to reproduce it on thread III. Thank you.

I meant under SHARIA law!

Go Olive!

I applaud your post Olive . To me it represents the gist of the three threads on this topic.

"I think if we want it not to happen again- then yes we need to try to understand"

No, first and foremost, we need to understand why it is currently not possible to criticise aspects of certain ethnic and migrant groups in Europe without (self-) censorship.

Hell, even after nearly 2.5 k posts I still feel uneasy taking my views outside of this thread because I would absolutely detest to be perceived as a racist or 'xenophobic'. Why? Because I abhor racism and reject xenophobia. I love many people who belong to various ethnic groups, to me people are human beings as i said in a previous thread. But no human being has the right to publicly assault other human beings without appropriate punishment.

The apparent difficult emotional tension between openly challenging problematic cultural phenomena and being tarred with a brush of 'racism' is what is so difficult here (as illustrated by the Guardian reports)

I'm changing my fbk profile icon thing to a German flag

I wasn't misinterpreting anything polenta. Rape 'jokes' or 'satire' or whatever you wish to call it are completely unacceptable and part of the culture of rape, so definitely should not be dismissed.