Mass sexual assaults in Cologne on New Years Eve

[Cellardoor1]

I've just read this and I'm shocked that such a thing could happen. A group of around 1,000 men gathered and assaulted at least 60 women and girls and also pickpocketed people. Apparently the news wasn't released until now out of fears it could stir up tension as the men appeared to be of Arab/North African appearance, possibly refugees.

abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/cologne-police-chief-condemns-sex-assaults-years-eve-36083833

Ipity not all the 'refugees' are fleeing a war, are they?
By the way, I did used to be liberal. I wish I still could be but it's not adding up anymore. I think there's probably a lot of people feel the same way.

"As it happens I (and two male friends) have been attacked in Berlin by a group of men, along time ago. Very white and very German men, in a far-right gang."

Thats another horrible problem, sadly. I'm sorry this happened to you. There are some places in East Berlin, where I wouldn't go because of the Neonazi problem, who are incidentally another type of aggressive and chauvinistic man.

Archfarchnad I don't wish to exaggerate, though I think some of the words I used in pp give the impression, such as 'all the time'. Please let me backtrack and clarify my experience. As I have said upthread I have never witnessed any physical assault. However, I would say that on most outings (usually during the school holidays, so that might play into it, i.e. people hanging about possibly without much to do) I have observed groups of young men who are probably of either Turkish or North African origin who ogle, make sounds, whistle or cluck their tongues when a young women walks past them. Hell, it has even happened to me when I am by myself and I am a middle-aged mother no looker.

For example, last time i visited Berlin one such group shared a bus ride with me and they acted in a very boisterous and intimidating way (the bus driver did fuck all). They got very close to a couple of young girls or went to sit next to single women on the bus looking at them. It was mob behaviour and intended to be intimidating. I have also spent some time in Paris, where North African men harassed me on a regular basis on the metro system, especially when changing trains during the evening hours.

WRT Berlin, I would definitely not go alone to Neukölln, Reubergviertel, parts of Wedding and Spandau, where 3rd generation Arab an Turkish men hang out looking for trouble. I know this because I have been to some of these places and know what kind of areas they are. I am told that Kreuzberg is up and coming though so not that bad maybe now. I agree perhaps that using the word No Go area is emotive and unnecessary so I will not refer to it as such again. I don't mean to exaggerate or get carried away in another type of online mob behaviour demonising men from other parts of the world. I would like peace not trouble.

Saying that the Malmö rape statistics, which someone mentioned upthread speak for themselves. Sweden has not been able to integrate the many immigrants it welcome so openly. I do think it is much better in England but then maybe I just haven't been to places where men behave in this way.

Far Right White Europeans = Bastards

There you go Pontypines

Natailya - You can save your patronising attitudes for someone else. I know plenty of Arab men, they aren't the demons you describe, the are...people. Some good, some bad, some whatever depending on all the variety of factors that influence anyone's character.

fourmummy I agree. The British have indeed been silenced. I notice they are even afraid to think un-PC thoughts - in case they might be overheard! A lot of guilt has been instilled into the Brits over the last two decades.

It is illegal in Europe to grope and fondle a woman who does not want that attention. People dont get into knots by trying to apply the values of men who come from other parts of the world and excuse their behaviour. If they announce in court "I did not know, your Honour" - well you know now, and that lesson will stay with him for longer.

Try something similar in their countries, and ignorance will see you go straight to jail.

pity, nobody says that Arab men are bad people. However traditionalist Arab men have on the whole bad attitudes to women.

Natailya - You can save your patronising attitudes for someone else. I know plenty of Arab men, they aren't the demons you describe, the are...people. Some good, some bad, some whatever depending on all the variety of factors that influence anyone's character.

Indeed, but when the 'bad ones' get together and take to the streets to harass and assault women, then the 'nice ones' sitting indoors drinking cups of tea somehow pale into insignificance.

"where 3rd generation Arab an Turkish men hang out looking for trouble"

Let me clarify: Of course not all of them but too many for me to feel safe.

Those poor women.

I don't really know what to say, I can't add anything others haven't already, I've been talking to dh about it and when I told him about the meeting outside the cathederal mentioned upthread, he said if those women became violent and started assaulting people then the police would have stopped them, and punished them, why can't they for what happened on NYE.

I'm sorry to those if you who have been assaulted

To go back to one of the original points about fireworks being thrown and it all being "normal" in Europe...

This video shows the scene in question, and is very clearly described by the newsreader as shocking footage. I can't see a single woman in any of the footage being involved in any of the "celebrating". It is all men and in fact the only two women I can see are fleeing.

This was 15 minutes up the road from me. If I was there, I'd have been terrified.

IPityThePontipines You sound like one of those 'beige' articles in Woman's Own.You say: "I know plenty of Arab men, they aren't the demons you describe, the are...people. Some good, some bad, some whatever depending on all the variety of factors that influence anyone's character.

Come off it, I know more Arab men than you .......
Of course they are very polite in public and in person; but their firmly-held attitudes and beliefs remain. Four near-strangers (all Arab men of varying nationalities) over the years have had the temerity to tell me off for marrying outside of my community and religion. That is because they feel entitled to speak to me in this way because a woman is not seen as a full human being with my own boundaries or mind. Instead, we are giggly things, not really able to run our lives.

I don't give a fuck where they are from, what colour they are or which religion they worship but to gather together and act as a group to molest women is deliberate and evil. That's it and it needs to be dealt with

The commentator on the link I posted (a woman) goes on to say that the reason that feminist groups have not come out against this is for fear of a backlash because of the ethnicity of the men involved.

You know how when a white person does something bad, we don't post loads of examples of everything bad ever done by a white person?

Right. Let's inject some reason here, rather than kowtowing to the god of political correctness. Please name for me the last time a thousand white men educated in Western Liberal values gathered together and sexually abused 60 women. 'Grope' is not specific enough - fingers were inserted in these women's 'orifices', were they not? Or was that a false claim? One was raped?

Remarking on this shocking event by men, abusing women, which had additional elements of differences in cultural and ethnic background, is not committing oneself to joining the EDF, BNP or whatever the far right is offering nowadays.

We aren't helping anyone by pretending this isn't happening. What countries must do now is take rational and proportionate action against the perpetrators of crime, using their legal systems correctly and effectively to show that such behaviour will not be tolerated.

From the German feminist website someone linked to earlier
www.feministischepartei.de/startseite.html

"Wir finden es richtig, dass die Bürgerinnen (generisches Femininum) in Deutschland aufgefordert werden Toleranz zu üben. Alleine Toleranz ermöglicht ein friedliches Zusammenleben. Wir sind der Meinung, dass sowohl die Vollverschleierung als auch das tragen des Kopftuchs stark zurück gehen würden, wenn es ein vom Mann unabhängige Aufenthaltsgenehmigung für jede Frau, eine drastische Arbeitszeitverkürzung und ausreichend Arbeitsplätze mit existenzsicherndem Lohn oder eine existenzsichernde Grundsicherung, die ein Leben in Würde ermöglicht, für jede Frau geben würde."

OMG, in a nutshell they say that they are not worried about Islamists but about all patriarchal religions. They say that women should be tolerant towards people who are different ('be a good girl') and they also say they believe that the number of women wearing a burka or headscarf would go down if certain female refuges were given more rights. This is very funny. I know from past threads on MN that some British women who cover their head feel patronised by Western liberals as they choose to wear it. They don't want to not wear it.

Another one here not surprised to hear about this, but actually i am heartened that it has been reported. I think too often the press has been very squeamish about reporting sexual harrassment/ abuse/ assault where there is a cultural dimension. See how slowly and how controlled things were revealed about rochdale/ Derby/ Oxford etc.
I grew up in Algeria and sexual harrassment in the street was my daily diet from about age 10. the mentality there went something like: 1) a good, clean woman is a virgin till her wedding night 2) one who isn't is dirty and 3) most western women fall into the 2nd category (handy for dehumanising the victim).
However I quickly realised when I came back to england that for some reason it wasn't OK to talk about it. Of course there's a link between a religion that states explicitely that god created man as a superior to woman, then goes on to outline the various in which woman's inferiority and dependence can be enshrined.

www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/inland/uebergriffe-in-koeln-diskussion-ueber-zusammenhang-mit-fluechtlingspolitik-13999108.html

So people did organise a march today.

Love the german feminists who are worried about "all patriarchal religions". The day the Amish in pennsylvannia, or the lubavitch in golders green go on a mass sexual assault rampage they'll have a point.

There is NO suggestion the men are asylum seekers so will posters please stop suggesting it!

This article suggests that at least some of the men probably were asylum seekers: www.express.de/koeln/sexuelle-uebergriffe-polizist--so-brutal-war-das-chaos-am-koelner-hbf-an-silvester-23252866

This is what was reported by several German news outlets this morning as well but appears to since have been deleted without comment from most articles. This sort of censorship and what in my opinion was clearly an attempt to cover up what happened that night isn't doing the majority of perfectly nice refugees any favours. It's playing into the hands of the far right's "Lügenpresse" ("the press are all lying") babble.

According to an alleged eye witness's account on Facebook, the police did try to arrest a group of men on the night but had to let them go some time later when it became apparent that no suitable prison transport vehicle or free cells were available:
www.facebook.com/ivan.jurcevic.56/videos/10204881795915947/?pnref=story (sorry, it's German only)

whataboutbob At last, someone has described what I have been trying to say but instead I have been called "patronising" for some reason. Of course, the religion of a country expresses itself into that society and the beliefs are the driver for everyday life. But I suspect that even without religion the status of woman would still be low in the Mid East.

As regards the sex-grooming scandals. Isn't it interesting and ironic that 10 years before Rotherham etc burst open, a right wing group was telling us what was going on but they were shouted down for being racist. So for 10 years more girls suffered unnecessarily all because of authorities not wanting to deal with reports because of the cultural dimension.

I can just imagine the scene: they're over here, unemployed/ not particularly employable, think western women are easy but their unsubtle attempts to pull are usually rebuffed because they put women off. They realise they are not getting the great life they thought they would. they see others celebrating and get even more resentful than usual. The frustration boils over on new year's eve in one big aggressive, misogynistic rampage.

Love the german feminists who are worried about "all patriarchal religions". The day the Amish in pennsylvannia, or the lubavitch in golders green go on a mass sexual assault rampage they'll have a point. Thanks for the best laugh of the night - I needed that.

This is fucking scandalous.

Yes, Natailya i believe it's patronising liberals telling the working class that what they see daily does not really exist/ is not OK to talk about that probably pushes some into the arms of organisations such as the BNP/ Combat 18 etc. Some people lack the backbone to face up to what is actually happening, it's too much hassle for them, but i wonder how they handle the cognitive dissonance in the long run.