Mass sexual assaults in Cologne on New Years Eve

[Cellardoor1]

I've just read this and I'm shocked that such a thing could happen. A group of around 1,000 men gathered and assaulted at least 60 women and girls and also pickpocketed people. Apparently the news wasn't released until now out of fears it could stir up tension as the men appeared to be of Arab/North African appearance, possibly refugees.

abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/cologne-police-chief-condemns-sex-assaults-years-eve-36083833

Arch There is no doubt that this sort of thing does go on, and in the UK too - look at Rotherham. But, it is not mainstream. There may well be anecdotal stories on here but that's not evidence. To balance that, may I say that it was a young white male who attacked me years ago. Noone is saying that all Muslims/Arabs/Men (take your pick) do this, but some do, and on that it is unacceptable, I'm sure we can all agree.

There is a discussion going on here RUB Aktuell onthephone100 but I despaired at some postings today.

"I fear the German attitude to women, which isn't hugely enlightened certainly in rural parts, may mean that German women will take this shit on the chin and stay at home. I fucking hope not, but I fear that may be the case."

One of the problems is that Germany is very split in terms of progressive people in the big cities and rather more conservative in the countryside. So your experience is probably very different to mine. There are very few Hausfrauen round here! We've got plenty of radical women in Berlin and it would be nice if some of them could organise a demo about this cos there's a demo for everything else under the sun in this city.

This is the link to the Feminist Party in Germany.

If it is true that the police were withholding the nationality of the perpetrators AND it was relevant, it all reminds me of Michel Houellebecq's novel Submission, where atrocities in Paris went unreported in order to starve Marine Le Pen of publicity.

Arch Nobody said for a minute that we believe the whole of mainland Europe to be "like this" based on this incident in Koln.

Just as I assume we shouldn't all think all Welsh men are arseholes based on your one experience!

"Are you saying you don't witness groups of ethnic men in Berlin acting violently or harassing women when out and about by ostentatiously ogling making sounds, looking women up and down staring at cleavage etc? Really? I spend a lot of time in Berlin visiting family and I see this all the time."

Nope, not particularly. As it happens I (and two male friends) have been attacked in Berlin by a group of men, along time ago. Very white and very German men, in a far-right gang. That's the only real violence I've experienced, and there was nothing sexual about that harassment.

"Some arts of Kreuzberg or Neukölln are definitely no go areas foe single German women" Which parts? Kottbusser Tor is singularly unpleasant because of all the drug addicts and beggars, but not threatening. I'd have no problem walking down Oranienstrasse by myself, but would certainly keep my bag to the front and stay aware (which is sound advice whether male or female). The one place I try to avoid when alone is underpasses, but that's true of the UK too.

Another site I post on has men saying that there is no confirmation this happened, 20 sexual assaults in one night isn't uncommon, 'groping' is wrong but happens all the time, their ethnicity has nothing to do with it etc.

Don't know about today but yesterday posts about it on reddit were being removed in the main subreddits, worldnews for example.

Guardian comments are disabled on the article.

Why aren't we allowed to talk about it? It's making me quite angry and worried for my daughter growing up in this world.

Ffs women really are at the bottom of the list aren't they?

These attacks in Germany make me feel physically sick.

I actually posted a comment in the Guardian about it and why I feel successful cultural integration and respect for western values does not seem like the most likely outcome of the mass, overnight immigration of hundreds of thousands mostly young men. These men cannot work while their asylum claim is processed so they live on a subsistence benefit. Furthermore they will likely struggle to learn the language of the host country sufficiently to catch up on education to a college or high school graduating level. They are simultaneously living in a rich society but yet they are shut out of it. Is it so surprising that some don't care or respect our laws? This is the exact comment I made in the Guardian and it was removed by the moderator, presumably something in my comment was deemed offensive??

I usually like the Guardian but I'm bit annoyed at being censored by them, at least I can write freely about it here!

I've done a self defence course, I can tell you it makes fuck all difference at the time your attacked. You go into self preservation mode. I can see it may get you out the situation before, but if they get you, it makes no difference. Let alone in a ratio of 1000:60

Glad to hear it Bit

I'm just a bit bewildered that Pinkchamp has such a different experience to me.

Yes, she's had a different experience to you. She described it. Nowhere did she (or anyone else) say "groping is an everyday and accepted affair over here in 'uncivilised' mainland Europe" did she? She said that she had personally experienced it in Germany. That's a big difference. I get that you are defending where you and your family live but don't put words in Pink's mouth. Or fr that matter portrayeveryone on ths thread as a bunch of small minded little Englanders. That's not on.

Cellar
"Ffs women really are at the bottom of the list aren't they?"

Oh, that does resonate.

Let's keep talking about it.

Can I just reiterate that the video that battersea posted at 17:46 is very upsetting and leads to some more, very upsetting Youtube clips. Don't watch if you fear it may be triggering for you

The Guardian deletions on this were a sight to see. wWhat was with the deletions for quoting from the first tiny report in The Guardian itself!

Anyway it was also ironic that the Opinion article was along the lines of "DIversity_ let's talk about it!" Followed by a deletathon.

It has already been reported in the media (2 months ago) that German women have been told to cover up and not go out alone in certai areas. What about the asylum centres in Germany that only have make cleaning staff as the women were being sexually assaulted? It's not a new thing.

MrsGradyOldLady sorry to hear what happened to you . Your story made me think of younger years/schooldays in east London (I wondered if thats where you meant) we knew not to walk where Asian guys congregated because they would grope you. I remember thinking after I had my DDs I was glad to move away from there.

Its not pc to say things we know as women to be true though, is it

My family are non-white, non-British. & I can tell you the same things said here about Asian and Middle-Eastern men is the exact thing said about them back home (which is not Europe), and thats based on their behaviour and "entitlement" towards women. It does not mean we say they are all the same; it means we are aware too many of them will aim to cross boundaries and be disrespectful with women, groping and propositioning etc. They'e stopped that shit back home because people don't put up with it, they're found and given a good hiding also anyone happening to walk by would raise the alarm.

I don't understand why a truth has to be kept so quiet over here and I feel it does no good at all; racial tensions are already stirred by this offensive behaviour anyway but then again on the other hand I worry about people being tarred with the same brush. This attitude that if 1 does something then they all do, stirred up by an irresponsible media in the main. It really is a catch 22 situation but it needs addressing somehow.

Its not behaviour they see openly and regularly around them so they know its wrong. Then again there are ways that line of thought could be shot down too. Difficult one.

Ah Bit, I didn't need to put the words in Pink's mouth, she did it herself, and then repeated that she sees it all the time. Her intention is clearly to claim that in her opinion this is somehow typical. Goodness, you're being a little bit aggressive this evening. Because I never said anything about 'small minded little Englanders' and that was never my thought, so you're doing a fair bit of invention yourself. Now shall we just leave it please. This is worrying enough as a situation without you arguing the toss when you're not even in the same country (and is your German good enough to read the articles directly? Because that makes a big difference).

I think this WILL be taken seriously, I just bloody hope it doesn't start becoming a trend in other cities among disaffected young North African men who hear about it on the media.

"t has already been reported in the media (2 months ago) that German women have been told to cover up and not go out alone in certai areas."

Give me that source please. Because I certainly didn't hear it on the news.

For me, it's not that I tar all Muslims or all Arab men with the same brush. However, I don't think that they CONDEMN this behaviour. Rather, they would preach that it is further evidence that good Muslim women should ensure to cover up, to avoid such attacks.

Please correct me if I am wrong in this perception.

The problem (to me) is how to defend liberalism and feminism without playing into the hands of the far right, who will take advantage of the situation. I don't know what the answer is

Why no mention in the BBC 6 o'clock news this evening? It's on their website.

mistress no not east end - northern ex mill town. I absolutely don't tar everyone with the same brush. I live in a pretty mixed area and my kids are all friends with children from lovely families - a lot of whom are Asian descent. Asian born too. Plus I have work colleagues and neighbours who are all lovely decent people.

I'm equally (possibly more actually ) pissed off with the police attitude of sweeping it all under the carpet and pretending there's no problem. Which has just created a bigger problem really.

Arghh! You said "all of you" who had said this was rife in "mainland Europe" the scrambled to find someone who had given direct examples of what she herself had experienced in Germany. Not a general blanket statement.

And you have no idea where I am. Or what languages I speak.

But hey, let's leave it there like you say.

I'm glad to hear it "will" be taken seriously by the German authorities because from what we are seeing where I am, it sure as hell hadn't been so far!

Pole that's the dichotomy I'm wrestling with. It's very uncomfortable. But at the end of the day (yuck. Sorry) these are men attaching women. Regardless of motive or culture or race or religion. The perpetrators are men. The victims are women. And that's a major reason why, in my opinion, this is not being given more prominent coverage / importance

What we need is for 30 million woman to have mass demonstrations in every town in the country on the last saturday of every month until it is stopped. Talking about it will acheive nothing. Only action will work.

Like many others on this thread I will not stand by while my freedom and those of my daughter are taken from us.

It scares me that there are woman out there who are happily undermining our freedoms to give more power to men bacause their skin is a different colour.

I am an immigrant and I abide by the laws of the UK. I don't get special treatment. That is how it MUST be. You want to live in a different culture... Leave.