Mass sexual assaults in Cologne on New Years Eve

[Cellardoor1]

I've just read this and I'm shocked that such a thing could happen. A group of around 1,000 men gathered and assaulted at least 60 women and girls and also pickpocketed people. Apparently the news wasn't released until now out of fears it could stir up tension as the men appeared to be of Arab/North African appearance, possibly refugees.

abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/cologne-police-chief-condemns-sex-assaults-years-eve-36083833

GarlicCake It is essential that everyone knows from which group such crimes stem. I have always said that East and West cannot co-exist, because the attitudes and mores of Arabia and Muslim Asia are different to Europe's.

We in the UK have gone thru changes in behaviour and have forged laws, but the East still has that to come. I don't think it will ever come, because culture essentially is established from the religion of each country. All our laws are founded on Judeo-Christian principles.

The refugees who came to the UK after WW2 were all European: Christian, Jewish and atheist and therefore there was no culture clash or major difference in behaviour, but those flooding in now are entirely a different kettle of fish.

On the one hand, it's sensible advice they are giving out, to an extent - after all, I ought to be able to go out and leave my house unlocked, as people ought not to steal other people's things; but I can't, so I guard against burglary as best I can - but when there appears to be no similar advice to men to, y'know, not violate women, it seems a bit one-sided to say the least.

Unfortunately, though, from what German posters are saying, Karneval is exactly the sort of thing these sleazemonkeys love: lots of close, physical contact because of the size of crowds = unprecedented opportunities to grab women's genitalia. I don't really know, though, how you would police an event like that: I suppose a really, really enormous police presence on the streets? It's not like policing for counter-terror, because the processes are different: any police people out here that could explain for us?

What an interesting post four. I very much agree that libralism (small L -I am not a Liberal, I'm a liberal) is not just an absence of values. It is very much an value system like any other.

Well, using that test Fourmummy, their culture doesn't comply with liberal values!

I genuinely feel that our two cultures are simply not compatible in any way, shape or form. What can we do about it though?

"for all of you who seem to think that groping is an everyday and accepted affair over here in 'uncivilised' mainland Europe"

Nobody has said anything of the sort Arch

I wonder in fact where you think we all live!

"The refugees who came to the UK after WW2 were all European: Christian, Jewish and atheist"

That is so far from accurate it's untrue Battersea

Headline in Berlin paper linked [[http://www.tagesspiegel.de/weltspiegel/uebergriffe-in-koeln-gegen-frauen-henriette-reker-gewalttaten-haben-nichts-mit-fluechtlingen-zu-tun/12790128.html here:"

Henriette Reker: Acts of violence have nothing to do with refugees

Cologne's mayor Henriette Reker denies any link between the violence in Cologne and the refugee situation. The police admit that there were mistakes in their communication strategy.

...in the joint press conference the talk was of 400 men.

...Police at the main station were already aware of the attacks the same night. However the police only realised the scale of the attacks the following day when the first reports [from victims] came in....

...Normally the police does not make reference to the attackers' ethnic background. But the vice president of the police union said that they were right to have done so. 'That [information] can't be kept suppressed, or we'd be moving in the wrong direction. Anyone who lives in our society with our values has to respect these values'...

...Some of the assaults were very serious and there was one rape...

"Nobody has said anything of the sort Arch hmm"

That seemed to be the impression that was coming across Bit

Not at all. We are quite clearly all shocked by the incident and doubly, trebly shocked that this has happened in a major European city which we hope shares exacty the same values as us with regards to women's rights and safety. Quite the actual opposite of us thinking this is the norm "on the continent"

Do you all remember the Lara Logan, CBS journalist who was raped when the crowd in Cairo turned on her. It was an Egyptian woman and her own colleague who got her out with difficulty. There was also a Dutch journalist who was also raped at that time by 5 men.

Apart from the rapes, the cacophony and jeering of the crowd is extremely loud and terrifying in itself.

((((Message edited by MNHQ to add that this video may affect people. Thanks)))

The HauptKommissar for Cologne is coming on telly tonight. I have left a poorly constructed and rather arsey question for him on the Facebook page.

Bit, you claim nobody has said that sexual harrassment in Germany is an everyday occurrence on this thread. Not true, this was an early post:

"I haven't seen any physical attacks but serious pestering by groups of men or teenage boys as an everyday occurrence. For example, going to a nice shopping arcade, you can be sure , if a young (German) girl(s) walk by such a group they will oggle very ostentatiously and violate personal space and intimidate them. It is disturbing and unpleasant."

I want to point out that that poster's experience of being in a big German city is very different from my far more expensive experience. As far as ogling ostentatiously is concerned - Germans in general have more tolerance of staring at others, it's just more an accepted part of society, while in the UK it's more of a no-no. So posters possibly think they're being subjected to 'visual harassment' (ie stared at) for being female, and it might just be because they've been heard speaking English and stand out for that.

So Battersea are you happy to stand by your statement that ""The refugees who came to the UK after WW2 were all European: Christian, Jewish and atheist""

And I think you might want to think long and hard before posting such an upsetting and trggering video without a warning

Ha, what a typo! I meant extensive experience. It's not been particularly expensive, Berlin's a fairly cheap place to live.

This happened to me in the UK around 20 years ago.

I was walking through a predominantly Asian area - ironically to a "Victim Support" meeting as I was on the management committee. It was around 6.30pm and still light on a busy main road when I was surrounded by a group of 4 or 5 Asian looking men. They grabbed my breasts and genital area and shoved me from one to the other. I was wearing doc Martin boots so I tried to kick them and shove them to get them away as well as shouting and swearing at them. It was only when I started spitting at them that they stopped. NO ONE stopped to help or came out of their houses. They MUST have heard as my throat was sore from shouting so loud and loads of cars must have passed but no one at all helped.

When I got to the meeting I told some of the others on the management committee what had happened - including a police officer who was also on the committee and the overwhelming view was that I was stupid for walking through that area alone in daylight in the first place. Being young I agreed with them. No one at all suggested making a report. I was just asked if I wanted to have counselling. I think I told them politely no. I wish I'd told them to fuck off looking back.

I've never walked through that area since and I won't allow my daughter to. My daughter has practiced karate since she was 5 (she's now 15) and has even fought for her club but there's fuck all you can do when faced with 5 attackers.

This sort of thing has been swept under the carpet for years. Decades even.

Def not what I was saying or read Arch

Oh there was a demonstration tonight, 6pm at the cologne cathedral. A couple of hundred women on the street.

Good for them.

Well done Arch. You managed to find one comment talking about one pposters own personal experience

Many many years ago, I was pickpocketed in Cologne. A crowd of men surrounded me and one dipped my bag stealing all my money and my ticket home. The Cologne police said it was a common occurrence/ method and that was early 90s.

I am SO angry! Women have struggled for hundreds of years to get equality and now we have some Neanderthals trying to take our freedom away. Who the hell do they think they are!

Hope there are more demonstrations! I'd like to see the cowards try to lay a finger on a woman there!

Oh and it was young German men.

Not mentioned on PM on radio 4 this evening, which seems odd, given the amount of time given to Labour Party shuffle. But , then again, it is the BBC which has it's own agenda.

"And for all of you who seem to think that groping is an everyday and accepted affair over here in 'uncivilised' mainland Europe: I've lived in Berlin for a quarter of a century near enough and have never had a major incident with sexual harassment, neither have my teenage daughters. There have been a few very minor things but nothing really threatening, sadly probably to be expected in any major city nowadays. The last time I experienced any sexual harassment was when on holiday in West Wales for a week, from a drunken Welshman. '

Wow you have been lucky. Are you saying you don't witness groups of ethnic men in Berlin acting violently or harassing women when out and about by ostentatiously ogling making sounds, looking women up and down staring at cleavage etc? Really? I spend a lot of time in Berlin visiting family and I see this all the time. Also the Turkish community is notorious for violent knife crime. Some arts of Kreuzberg or Neukölln are definitely no go areas foe single German women. imo