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Mass sexual assaults in Cologne on New Years Eve

999 replies

Cellardoor1 · 04/01/2016 22:20

I've just read this and I'm shocked that such a thing could happen. A group of around 1,000 men gathered and assaulted at least 60 women and girls and also pickpocketed people. Apparently the news wasn't released until now out of fears it could stir up tension as the men appeared to be of Arab/North African appearance, possibly refugees.

abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/cologne-police-chief-condemns-sex-assaults-years-eve-36083833

OP posts:
BabyGanoush · 05/01/2016 17:00

Shocking this got no coverage

onthephone100 · 05/01/2016 17:01

I wonder if we can fight back in some way. A mass female protest on Karneval weekend. Thousands of women all supporting each other on the streets.

VocationalGoat · 05/01/2016 17:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 05/01/2016 17:02

Does Reclaim The Streets exist in Germany?

franke · 05/01/2016 17:02

That 'advice' is shocking. Shouldn't they be 'advising' sexually aggressive woman–haters to, er, not assault women? I despair.

BitOutOfPractice · 05/01/2016 17:03

That would be great onthephone

Were you planning on going to Karnivel? Can you tell I've started worrying about you now?

onthephone100 · 05/01/2016 17:04

I don't know Countess.

I don't usually go to the big parade in the centre, but I'm bloody tempted now! If there was some sort of protest I'd definitely go.

Pinkchampchoccies · 05/01/2016 17:04

Does anyone remember a book called Clash of Civilisations? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clash_of_Civilizations. I remember my mum and i discussing this book and both of us were appalled by the implication that cultures cannot live together in harmony. I think I am changing my view on this somewhat. We need to protect our Western ideals, protect the idea of human rights, enlightenment etc. we must not accept backwards misogynist attitudes and behaviour. But something is going to have to give. It is either allowing some communities to impose their backwards ways on Western public life as beautifully demonstrated by the Cologne response "nasty men attack women, let's change our traditions and curb our liberties by telling women to keep away from strangers and to stay with a group of friends at all times. I mean do women need to be chaperone in order to meet their group of friends? How will they travel to get to the meeting point? Basically German politicians are suggesting that women's right and ability to move around freely and participate in traditional festivities has been restricted for their own safety. Nasty men 2, innocent women 0. Angry

onthephone100 · 05/01/2016 17:05

I'm so furious I feel like going to Karneval butt fucking naked now!

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 05/01/2016 17:12

Oops, I mean Reclaim The Night. Thing is, it started up when the Leeds police advice to women to stay safe from the Yorkshire Ripper was to stay at home.

Theodopolus · 05/01/2016 17:12

Did they hold these crisis talks that they were on about yet?

polentapies · 05/01/2016 17:14

They did this in Glasgow and also a Reclaim The Night event in 2014

Onthphone Totally with you. When is Karnival btw?

BitOutOfPractice · 05/01/2016 17:16

OnThePhone you do realise you're going to have to give us all three rings when you get in to let us know you're OK don't you. Don't worry, there's only half a million members of MN

LidiaW6 · 05/01/2016 17:18

What's the point of not mentioning the ethnicity of these men? It is of course for PC reasons, but at the expense of those reading about the attacks to fully understood what happened.

Malmo in southern Sweden states that 90 percent of all sexual attacks on (only) Swedish women are perpetrated by immigrant men. Malmo has a large immigrant population of Middle Eastern people whose attitudes are light years behind Europe's. Since about 12 yrs ago there was a huge jump in rape and other sex attacks.

polentapies · 05/01/2016 17:20

New York times covering it now

NYTimes

onthephone100 · 05/01/2016 17:22

Aw thanks BOOF.

The big Karneval celebration is the weekend of the 6th February this year I think.

I can see very little on German Facebook sites, mums groups etc. The state police Facebook page has a separate piece on 5 men who have been arrested for assaults on women who may or may not also have been involved on NYE.

The page says they will auto delete any comments not in German or containing any links to external pages Hmm and I can't be arsed to try to translate my inevitable rant into German.

polentapies · 05/01/2016 17:22

Fuck. Trump will be fucking delighted

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 05/01/2016 17:24

Yeah Polenta, there was lots of anti -immigrant / anti-Muslim stuff on the Twitter hashtag.

onthephone100 · 05/01/2016 17:25

WHERE'S THE ANGER GERMANY, FOR FUCKS SAKE?!

I fear the German attitude to women, which isn't hugely enlightened certainly in rural parts, may mean that German women will take this shit on the chin and stay at home. I fucking hope not, but I fear that may be the case.

BitOutOfPractice · 05/01/2016 17:26

Aren't German women's groups just as furious as we are?

I don't particularly care what ethnicity, religion or race these men are. They are men, attacking women. That's the crux of the matter

And that's why, in my opinion, why the response has been so pathetic. Because the victims are women and therefore the crimes are not considered sufficiently serious to warrant a huge response.

fourmummy · 05/01/2016 17:26

More seriously, I really like Martha Nussbaum's proposals in Political Emotions. Yes it is problematic for various reasons to actively promote a set of values, especially in a country which respects the freedom of opinion and of religion. It is inherently problematic for a liberal many of whom will want to argue that there are no values that are intrinsically superior to others, that they do not want to judge etc. And yet, I really feel that this needs to be done or we'll slide back to the dark ages. Nussbaum is a leading philosopher and her argumentation is nuanced. I actually think that we can go one step further in explaining what's gone wrong with multiculturalism in Western societies. Contrary to popular belief, liberalism does not mean 'anything goes' although many, many politicians (and citizens) have interpreted it thus. Liberalism is a 'thing', a set of liberal values of equality, social justice and fairness for all. Liberalism is not a morally or ethically bankrupt anything, a vague 'feeling' or 'understanding' which is not tied to anything concrete, an inability to prioritise an idea or a belief. Liberal ideas stand alongside faith-based ideas or indeed any other ideas in philosophy, religion, politics in terms of organisation. They are a thing in and of themselves. So, we have Christianity, Judaism, Fascism, Liberalism, etc.. Liberalism is a strong and proud tradition just as faith-based ideas are to their adherents. The world is multicultural, but within this multicultural world, societies live according to a social contract- a set of ideas that we all loosely agree on. People who violate this social contract are sanctioned in a number of ways (legally, informally socially, financially, etc.). Liberalism does not, in fact, mean allowing mini-cultures to develop alongside one another. Human life is organised into mini-cultures on our planet, but we have never in our history really lived like that interculturally (humans live in bands, tribes, chief-based larger tribes and states - have just read Jared Diamond's book - amazing). Now, just because we have never lived multiculturally does not mean that we can't do so in the future, but if we accept liberalism as a set of ideas in their own right, then it's easier to see how a) their adherents need to fight for them b) others wishing to join a liberal culture need to adhere to a Liberal identity and agree to liberal values c) if anyone asks a Liberal (not of the political party persuasion) culture to accept their own idea or belief, we can apply the test of 'Does this idea/belief subscribe to equality, fairness and social justice'? Adherents of Liberal values can then argue that their values are indeed superior to others - join us or go.

onthephone100 · 05/01/2016 17:27

I don't now BOOF, I'm not plugged into the German women's groups mainframe.

All the women's groups I know are into quilting. So I'm not a member. Obviously.

Archfarchnad · 05/01/2016 17:30

It's certainly a disturbing occurrence, but I don't think it's being underreported at this stage. The German press and senior politicians do seem to be taking it pretty seriously now - whatever the reason was for the delay of several days. The message coming from the top (the female mayor of Cologne and Angie herself) from just scanning several German newspapers now is quite clearly 'we can't allow this to happen'.

The latest info is that 400 men were probably involved, not 1000 (still 400 too many, of course). The mayor is emphasising that there is no evidence the recent influx of refugees had anything to do with it.

The 'advice', code of conduct or whatever for Karneval, is not aimed specifically at women to change their behaviour - it's directed at everyone who participates, male and female. Obviously it's not actually going to work (keeping at arms' length from everyone isn't ever feasible in a city, even outside Karneval time), but I assume it's being issued so that police have a reason to intervene at an early stage when a suspicious-looking crowd forms, possibly before a crime technically happens.

And for all of you who seem to think that groping is an everyday and accepted affair over here in 'uncivilised' mainland Europe: I've lived in Berlin for a quarter of a century near enough and have never had a major incident with sexual harassment, neither have my teenage daughters. There have been a few very minor things but nothing really threatening, sadly probably to be expected in any major city nowadays. The last time I experienced any sexual harassment was when on holiday in West Wales for a week, from a drunken Welshman.

And that makes this organised attack in Cologne and Hamburg all the more shocking, because it's NOT normal, it was clearly coordinated and was clearly a provocation, as much so as an ISIS bombing attack. By linking this to the behaviour of immigrants in general you're falling into their trap of spreading hatred and prejudice.

"I read years ago (during the hoo-ha over the British citizenship tests when those were introduced) that the Dutch make applicants for Dutch citizenship watch a film about life in the Netherlands. This includes for instance gay couples being affectionate (obviously not having sex but holding hands? kissing?) and it is made clear that if someone wants to be a Dutch citizen, they need to live with the values in that society."
Something similar happens already with the compulsory German citizenship test. A number of questions are directed at the equality of men and women, freedom of sexual identity, etc What's disturbing is that you can still get citizenship if you only get half the questions right, so you could technically answer that you don't believe in equality of the sexes and nonetheless be granted citizenship - but at least you would be aware that you are breaking the law and contravening social expectations.

onthephone100 · 05/01/2016 17:31

Mamikreisel, the main mummy group I know of, has a picture of a pg Anna Hathaway up and is asking how you decorate a nursery.

For fucks sake.

Cellardoor1 · 05/01/2016 17:31

I haven't read all the replies yet but I've just logged back on to MN this morning and I'm so glad that this is being discussed now. I have to say, I was rather disheartened yesterday that nobody had replied to my OP.

Going to read through now Smile

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