9/11. Not interested in a debate here, but can we just have a quick show of hands?

[AnotherEffingOrangeRevel]

I'm just interested in how many people around here are also highly skeptical of what we have been told about 9/11.

I'm really not after a debate (it would be long, involved, probably pointless and personally I have done this elsewhere), but I just wanted to see who is around.

It has very strong ongoing relevance for current world events.

Many thanks.

I have never heard the term luvvies used in this way. I thought it was a derogatory term for actors.

Because if I were to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth to those who do not understand what the elite do and what they are capable of, then they wouldn't believe that it could possibly be so

So tell us, claig, what is your unique source of truth that isn't available to the rest of us? Because all I ever see you citing on here as evidence is endless quotes from newspapers, which (a) are unreliable and (b) are available to everyone.

I do love the concept that extremely powerful dark forces are putting massive resources into producing things like 9/11 and keeping it all secret, but are so dim that they recruit the same crisis actors repeatedly and are wholly unable to prevent people coming onto YouTube and MN exposing that fact.

'I have never heard the term luvvies used in this way. I thought it was a derogatory term for actors.'

Yes it started out as for actors, but is now increasingly used for politically correct metropolitan elite mouthpieces and servants etc, basically for clueless out of touch elite servants.

'So tell us, claig, what is your unique source of truth that isn't available to the rest of us?'

Assiduous study and a deep understanding of the elite, their motives and objectives and an understanding of their servant luvvie class.

'but are so dim that they recruit the same crisis actors repeatedly and are wholly unable to prevent people coming onto YouTube and MN exposing that fact.'

They are not dim, they often hire teenage whizzkids from top universities and think tanks. But they are arrogant and underestimate the people. They alos do not have full control. They Asare few in number and we the people are the many. It has always been thus, the elite are few, their luvvies are a bit more numerous, but we are the many as Shelley wrote many many years ago

Rise, like lions after slumber
In unvanquishable number!
Shake your chains to earth like dew
Which in sleep had fallen on you:
Ye are many—they are few

They couldn't stop the people electing Corbyn as Labour leader no matter how many luvvies, bigwigs, PPEs and all the rest they could throw at the people, and in America their worst nightmare is Donald Trump who is so politically incorrect that their politically correct control mechanism has no effect on him whatsoever, as he just doesn't care.

luvvies started off as actors, then it went to Labour luvvies which extends beyond just actors but to many of the rest of the politically correct class.

They are not dim, they hire the best and the brightest luvvies they can find. But they are in panic atthe waking up of the people and above all at Donald Trump.

They have resorted to planting politicaaly correct stooges (probably luvvies) into Trump's meeting to try and show him up as being politically incorrect in the hope that the people will succumb to their politically correct control mechanism, but political correctness is over, they can't use it for control any longer; Trump has blown it away and freed the people from their chains

Shake your chains to earth like dew
Which in sleep had fallen on you:

"The plot against Donald Trump
...
it illustrates that in the age of the outsider candidate (Trump, Ben Carson, Carly Fiorina), the GOP establishment is having a devil of a time figuring out a way to stop him.
...
Still, the Donald was pummeled by the left-wing media for not “correcting” or “denouncing” the sentiments.
...
Whatever the case, it’s clear that the Trump phenomenon is giving professional politicians a severe case of heartburn.

The GOP establishment, already reeling from the surprise defeat of former House Majority Leader Eric Cantor in Virginia last year and the announcement late last month that John Boehner will soon give up both his House seat and his speakership, has been caught flat-footed by the rise of Trump and the other nonprofessional politicians and is desperately seeking a way to stop them.
...
So the GOP is now facing its worst nightmare: What if Trump is for real? That behind all the bluster, beneath the weird hair, is a guy who just might be able to clean out the Augean stables of the Permanent Bipartisan Fusion Party that continues to cling to power in Washington.

The Democrats — with their eminently indictable presumptive nominee, Hillary Clinton — don’t like the idea of fundamental change any better than the Republicans. They prefer GOP opponents who don’t fight back, lose gracefully, and keep their seats at the national trough."

nypost.com/2015/10/17/the-plot-against-donald-trump/

All eyes are on America, the elite and their luvvie class are panicking and the people are partying. If Trump wins, then the entire world will change and all the luvvies over here will change like the wind and the people will party like it's 1999 all over again.

Ye are many—the luvvies are the few

Yeesh! I feel as though I have been entombed in a weird rhetoric that even George Smile would have struggled with.

'a guy who just might be able to clean out the Augean stables of the Permanent Bipartisan Fusion Party that continues to cling to power in Washington'

The Permanent Bipartisan Fusion Party means the one party, the luvvie servant party to the elite, that is "all the same", "all in it together".

Trump threatens to break the luvvies, clean out the Augean stables, fill in the moats, end the duck houses and all the games and rewards the elite offers the luvvies. Trump threatens change and the elite and their servants are in panic for they may lose "their seats at the national trough"

I haven't actually read George Orwell's 1984 but it is all in there. Orwell understood the elite, he knew the game, he went to Eton.

He wrote about the party, IngSoc, which is newspeak for English Socialism or the English Socialist Party, whose leader is Big Brother, the elite. The party, socialist and politically correct and Big Brother loves you is all smoke and mirrors to fool the people. This is what Orwell wrote about how the elite through their party maintain control of the people, how the few control the many.

"If the Party chose, all its people could live in luxury, but they instead choose to lower the quality of living: It is important that the lower classes remain stupefied by poverty and the struggle for mere survival; if they were to become too comfortable, they might learn to think for themselves and rebel against the Party."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingsoc

'they might learn to think for themselves and rebel against the Party'

Labour members rebelled against the Party, they rebelled against the Oxbridge private school elites who run it as servants for the real elite. Will Corbyn be for real and for the people or will he bottle it? We don't yet know. But it doesn't matter if Donald Trump wins, because he will change the world for the benefit of the many and not the few.

You do know that Orwell wrote about quite a few dystopian futures and that they were ALL fictional, don't you?

Much I like 1984 - and I have read it, a few times - I prefer A Clergyman's Daughter. That is a book that looks long and hard at social inequity! Maybe you could read it...?

Yes fictional, but based on his knowledge and experience and understanding of politics, the BBC, socialism, communism and the elite.

'A Clergyman's Daughter.'

Thanks for recommending that. I have never heard of it, had no idea that it was written by Orwell. I will try and read it.

Any other good recommendations please?

I read Down and Out in Paris and London when I was about 18, but that is it as far as Orwell is concerned. So any other good books he wrote are very welcome.

So tell us, claig, what is your unique source of truth that isn't available to the rest of us?'

Assiduous study and a deep understanding of the elite, their motives and objectives and an understanding of their servant luvvie class.

Oh, right. So no actual evidence. As we thought.

They are not dim, they often hire teenage whizzkids from top universities and think tanks. But they are arrogant and underestimate the people.

Assuming that to be true, don't you think they might have noticed by now and changed their tactics? Seeing that stuff on YouTube isn't actually secret?

I do love the idea that all these brilliant, experienced conspirators rely on teenagers for their evil plots, and equally rely on them to keep all the details absolutely confidential. Have you ever actually lived in an Oxbridge college? If you had you would know that you would have to be mad to rely on their students, no matter how brilliant, for anything like that.

I haven't actually read George Orwell's 1984 but it is all in there

Oh, claig, that encapsulates the very essence of your posts. I'm never going to read one again without remembering that.

'Assuming that to be true, don't you think they might have noticed by now and changed their tactics?'

No, because there is nothing else they can do but spin and spin and lies can be seen through. No matter how many coacjhed hand gestures and pregnant pauses luvvies and politicians are taught to use, they can't fool the people because they are based on spin and deception. The truth will always out and lies will always be revealed.

I watchded Fox News the other day because I wanted to see how they were handling Trump, the people's Presidential candidate, and in between their attacks on Trump, they had other stuff like "crises" etc and the spin was palpable, the interviews, the interviewers etc, it was obvious, but they still do it because there is no alternative for them to get the message across.

'Have you ever actually lived in an Oxbridge college? If you had you would know that you would have to be mad to rely on their students, no matter how brilliant, for anything like that.'

No I haven't, but I use the term "teenage whizzkids" in an ironic sense, because all the spinners, luvvies, political correctness and coached hand gestures are totally transparent and don't fool the people which is why the elite are facing the political insurgencies of Farage, the People's Army, Corbyn and Trump. I use the term "teenage" to highlight their naivety and lack of success in fooling the people.

... still drowning, not waving!

If you watch the "citizen journalist" videos on "crisis actors", the "citizen journalists" mention the concept of "duplicity delight" where the "crisis actors" use give-away tells that they cannot prevent and some of the "crisis actors" are in fact real actors.

Isn't that how David Blaine does it?

So in your perfect world Claig, we would hand the reigns of government to Donald Trump and Nigel Farage?

Bloody hell, that sounds like more of a dystopian nightmare that anything else you have blathered about.

'we would hand the reigns of government to Donald Trump and Nigel Farage?'

That wouldn't be a bad start.

If the elites, their servants and their luvvies dislike them and the people like them, what is bad about that?

we would hand the reigns of government to Donald Trump and Nigel Farage?

"Leaders united against Farage

At least our political leaders agree on one thing – they all hate Nigel Farage.
...
This exposes the huge gulf between politicians and voters. Part of the problem is that mainstream parties have been hi-jacked by lobby groups which know how to make trouble if they don’t get what they want.

These groups, often charities enjoying huge bungs of taxpayers’ money, are as powerful as old-fashioned trade unions and good at holding politicians to ransom.

Politicians are terrified of adopting policies which right-on, politically-correct, do-gooding left-wing charities might find offensive.

UKIP’s leader is not yet in thrall to these groups. He can be brave – or foolish – enough to stick his neck out and say the things many ordinary people agree with but are almost too afraid even to think these days."

www.expressandstar.com/news/2015/04/11/leaders-united-against-farage/

"The GOP Base Loves Trump"
...

Republican elites don’t want him, Republican donors don’t want him, and if—through some cosmic fluke—he managed to win a major primary, every strategist and activist in the Republican Party would turn their aim toward him and his candidacy.

But just because Trump is an unqualified vanity candidate doesn’t mean he’s unimportant in the story of the 2016 GOP presidential primary. Unlike Chris Christie or Mike Huckabee—two vastly more legitimate candidates—Trump is popular with Republican voters"

www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2015/07/cnn_trump_poll_why_republicans_love_donald_trump.html

The game is not over yet. They mocked the people, they laughed at the people and they insulted the people, but the people may yet have the last laugh.

As one of our finest poets, Shelley, once said

"Ye are the many, the luvvies are the few".

Of course the us government is willing and able to trick the general public into believing a version of events that isn't accurate.

Unless we all believe that bullets can change direction and do u turns mid air.

Are you referencing the JFK shootings Lightbulbon?

To trick the general public except of course for the very great minds on this thread, who like the OP and others, refuse to be tricked and who instead, with great articulacy and intelligent use of evidence, have explained to us who carried out the attacks and why.

Oh but wait.

No, because there is nothing else they can do but spin and spin and lies can be seen through.

Of course they can. If, for the sake of argument, the assassination of Kennedy and the moon landings were a gigantic establishment conspiracy which, nevertheless, thousands of loons people on the internet have been able to expose, they would presumably have decided that maybe the 9/11, 7/7 and Diana assassination conspiracies weren't a good idea.

I use the term "teenage" to highlight their naivety and lack of success in fooling the people.

Claig, you always do this when you get caught out in something particularly absurd - claim that you were joking or doing it deliberately. It isn't working.

And as for the concept that all these master conspirators, who have the resources to fly planes into buildings and fake moon landings and make thousands of journalists, scientists, policemen and others keep quiet about it, are nevertheless incredibly naive - equally that just doesn't work. At some point you have to try arguing using normal logic, not proclamations of what you would like the truth to be unbacked by any credible evidence other than quotes from equally illogical newspaper articles.