Do you think now the world has it's eyes opened to the true horror unfolding in Syria, they will now actually do something about ISIS?

[Whoknewitcouldbeso]

I know efforts are being made by some nations to try and counteract ISIS with the aid of drones and counter intelligence but I wonder if the refugee crisis may serve to instigate some direct action by more of the World's heavyweights?

I have just read the story of how Aylan's father has traveled back to Kobane to bury his family and has no intention of leaving the country again. It is his home and he was only leaving to try and save his family after 11 of his extended family were murdered by ISIS. There has been so much talk about migrants and asylum seekers and trying to help those who are fleeing, but most of these people would not be fleeing if it wasn't for the fact that they fear for their lives.

Surely we should be doing more to make their own country safe or do you think that's not possible and the only solution is to allow the ethnic cleansing to carry on taking place.

'when 2-years later it is clear that he hasn't'

Of course he has won, they couldn't topple him but they are still trying. They don't want to negotiate and talk to Assad, but General Lord Dannatt said we should talk to him.

' always seem to have the 'clarity' '

Because I am clear thinking. I expect you to challenge with your muddled thinking and simplistic Sunni-Shia mantras gleaned from the pages of Murdoch's Sun newspaper.

'Please explain with qualified links, WHEN this pipeline was announced and WHY the worlds "Jihadists weren't happy about it" and by definition, deciding that a holy war was the only answer???'

I don't want to teach posters who know what is going on how to suck eggs and I know that explaining it in simplistic terms to you would be a waste, as you haven't got the foggiest. You need to take a basic class in Politics 101 before engaging on the news boards of Mumsnet.

The Arab spring uprisings have been coordinated to overthrow existing regimes. The Syrian uprising was a backed, planned Muslim Brotherhood uprising to topple Asaad because he didn't play ball over gas.

Read the US Armed Forces Journal, not the Sun newspaper, it's all in there spelt out clearly. Even you will probably understand half of what they say.

Claig .. who the feck is this Armed Forces Journal run by, the government, or some bunch of ex military, pro machine gun lobby, spot-the conspiracy red necks?

Your ability to find one bit of dodgy material and dismiss every other FACT, astounds me. lol

Why would a holy war be declared over gas for god sake, as where are the Muslim Brotherhood, mostly Egypt now opposing the current government?

WHEN did Lord Dannatt, who has not been a general for years, say we should speak to Assad - and what did he want us to say?

The fact is that the majority of the Syrian refugees and indeed those that have died, were caused by Assad, directly supported by Russia, as has been the case since the early 1970’s that I can remember.

”Vladimir Putin admits supporting President Bashar al-Assad in Syrian civil war”
www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/vladmir-putin-admits-supporting-president-assad-in-syrian-civil-war-10488165.html

“Assad's regime has also killed more civilians than its terrorist opponents Isis in a civil war which has seen 250,000 people die, reported the Daily Telegraph.”

“As such, much of the international community aside from Russia has said that Assad has no place in Syria's future.”

“Yet Putin has positioned himself as a fighter "against terrorism", having supplied arms to the Syrian regime for some time but now claiming this is to combat dangerous opponents to it.”

"[...] We are already giving Syria quite serious help with equipment and training soldiers, with our weapons," the state-owned RIA Novosti news agency quoted Mr Putin as saying at an economic forum in Vladivostok.”

Meanwhile, the UK parliament seems to be want to be consulted when the UK government sees a clear and present danger from UK citizens who have publicly gone to Syria, joined ISIS and sent back a hate video to prove it.

Apparently those close who would have said 'I didn't realise that person had become radicalised', now say 'I don't think that person was bright or resourceful enough to attempt terrorist acts' - so want to see intelligence proof gathered from potential sensitive sources.

Cameron stated that despite his defeat in parliament re the ability to stop Assad killing his own citizens, that if he saw such a danger, he would reserve the right to acts and answer to parliament after.

It appears from parliament yesterday that if we'd had a Labour-SNP coalition in government, we would have waited until either; the attack happened, we alerted the target by discussing it in parliament first, we had Assad's permission to take out HIS British citizen enemy, we had a signed confession from a self confessed British terrorist, and/or a character assessment from the family.

The insinuation by the 'oppose everything Tory' opposition that Cameron feels that he now has the right to illegally send a UK Drone to 'take out' a British citizen in ANY country, is pathetic at best.

The suggestion that a British Attorney General, rather than a British Prime Minister, authorises such action, is similarly pathetic political word plays.

P.S. In Iraq the UK government in some back room made up a dossier on Iraqi WMDs as a pretext to going to war, got support from the UK security services to verify it, and others from HM opposition to support their actions based on that dossier - this continual mistrust of any future UK government decision in a war zone, DUE to that costly deception, has to stop - so the government of the day can do its duty and protect us. IMO.

'who the feck is this Armed Forces Journal run by'

"AFJ is the leading joint-service journal of commentary and ideas for U.S. military officers and leaders in the defense community. AFJ has been providing essential review and analysis for 150 years. Founded in 1863 as The Army and Navy Journal, it quickly became the fashionable forum for the exchange of military ideas. Today, AFJ offers ideas and perspective about military strategy, doctrine, technology, procurement, logistics, and more."

www.armedforcesjournal.com/about-us/

'Why would a holy war be declared over gas for god sake, as where are the Muslim Brotherhood, mostly Egypt now opposing the current government?'

It's not a holy war, that is the cover that the backers of the paid for mercenary Jihadists use in their attempt to try and topple Assad because he didn't go along with the gas deal.

"How the Muslim Brotherhood Hijacked Syria’s Revolution"
...
But since the uprising erupted on March 15, 2011, the Brotherhood has moved adroitly to seize the reins of power of the opposition’s political and military factions."

foreignpolicy.com/2013/03/13/how-the-muslim-brotherhood-hijacked-syrias-revolution/

The rich backers of the Jihadis need these type of fanatics to try and topple Assad (because he didn't play ball over gas). Ordinary people are not interested in uprisings and toppling governments, only paid and armed and funded and backed Jihadis and fanatics.

'WHEN did Lord Dannatt, who has not been a general for years, say we should speak to Assad - and what did he want us to say?'

Read the article I posted. He said we should cooperate with Assad in defeating Isis.

Guardian article

"Syria intervention plan fueled by oil interests, not chemical weapon concern"
...
These strategic concerns, motivated by fear of expanding Iranian influence, impacted Syria primarily in relation to pipeline geopolitics. In 2009 - the same year former French foreign minister Dumas alleges the British began planning operations in Syria - Assad refused to sign a proposed agreement with Qatar that would run a pipeline from the latter's North field, contiguous with Iran's South Pars field, through Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria and on to Turkey, with a view to supply European markets - albeit crucially bypassing Russia. Assad's rationale was "to protect the interests of [his] Russian ally, which is Europe's top supplier of natural gas."

Instead, the following year, Assad pursued negotiations for an alternative $10 billion pipeline plan with Iran, across Iraq to Syria, that would also potentially allow Iran to supply gas to Europe from its South Pars field shared with Qatar. The Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) for the project was signed in July 2012 - just as Syria's civil war was spreading to Damascus and Aleppo - and earlier this year Iraq signed a framework agreement for construction of the gas pipelines.

The Iran-Iraq-Syria pipeline plan was a "direct slap in the face" to Qatar's plans. No wonder Saudi Prince Bandar bin Sultan, in a failed attempt to bribe Russia to switch sides, told President Vladmir Putin that "whatever regime comes after" Assad, it will be "completely" in Saudi Arabia's hands and will "not sign any agreement allowing any Gulf country to transport its gas across Syria to Europe and compete with Russian gas exports", according to diplomatic sources. When Putin refused, the Prince vowed military action."

www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2013/aug/30/syria-chemical-attack-war-intervention-oil-gas-energy-pipelines

There are billions and billions of dollars at stake in the battle to supply Europe with oil and gas. Germany, the European insustrial powerhouse, has conveniently shut down their nuclear plants and are now reliant on gas and oil. Syria refused the Qatari deal and wants to supply Iranian gas via the Iran/Iraq/Syria pipeline which would impact the planned Qatari/Saudi pipeline through Turkey. That is why a blind eye has been turned towards the funded Jihadis and Isis by countries surrounding Syria because they stand to gain by the pipeline through their territory.

They want Assad out so that they will be the suppliers of Europe for its energy needs. And that is also why Russia has been targetted via the Ukrainian coup against its elected President, in order to eventually cut Russian oil and gas supplies to Germany and Europe via Ukraine. Other routes the Russians have tried to supply oil have been blocked by the EU and now Russia have tried to go via Turkey and Greece, but that will probably fall through too.

The reason the war in Syria has lasted 5 years despite the millions of refugees is because the rich backers of the Jihadis want to end up being the main suppliers of energy to Europe because there are huge amounts of money to be gained.

Claig …. The AFJ who specialises in commentaries and ideas re defence and military strategy has given a view, so what, I do not see anywhere in the FACTS any of the facts behind believing a pipeline was the main reason for this war – that started THE DAY when Assad fired on his own people.

And clearly you CANNOT dispute the Sunnis in Syria and Iraq were being oppressed by Shia administrations - in Syria by a minority government representing only 18% of the people, but most of the wealth and influence.

As for “mercenary Jihadists”; you are someone naïve if you didn’t realise that all these conflicts are fought by proxy, whether via the superpowers, or regional power brokers on BOTH sides.

”Iran Pays Afghans to Fight for Assad”

”Offers Them $500 Stipend, Residency Benefits”
www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304908304579564161508613846

”The Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps, or IRGC, recruits and trains Shiite militias to fight in Syria. Details of their recruitment efforts were posted this week on a blog focused on Afghan refugees in Iran and confirmed by the office of Grand Ayatollah Mohaghegh Kabuli, an Afghan religious leader in the Iranian holy city of Qom. A member of the IRGC also confirmed the details.”

”Both Iran and Hezbollah have openly taken credit for their efforts in Syria. Gen. Hossein Hamedani, a senior Guards commander involved in planning war strategy in Syria, said last week that with God's help, Iran had trained an extra 130,000 soldiers ready for dispatch.”

”Thanks to the planning and wisdom of Iran's leaders, Syria's regime could enjoy "some stability," he said.”

”The 130,000 was an apparent reference to all the Shiite militias including Iranians, Hezbollah, Afghans and other foreign fighters.”

”Iran also took credit for the recent peace deal between opposition rebels and the regime in Homs, whereby the rebels evacuated the city and surrendered control to the government.”

”"Nothing happens in Syria without Iran's hand," said Hossein Sheikholeslam, a lawmaker and parliament's deputy head of foreign affairs.”

I freely admit I have no idea who controls all the factions with the Syrian rebel army, but what I do know is that a government will have to be formed in Syria ONE DAY from those within – as neither Assad or ISIS represents the majority of Syrians – especially those displaced within and/or outside as refugees.

The unleashing of the backed, armed and funded Jihadis has led to instability, destruction and millions of refugees who are now beginning to come to Europe as they think there is no hope left for them in their country.

Syria's allies don't want to see the instability spread (as it has done in Libya) throughout the region. They don't want these beheading funded butchers who profess to follow the Koran to destroy the Islamic countries in the region and that is why Hezbollah and other followers of Islam are trying to defeat the barbarism of Isis who behead people, rape women, kill children and destroy humanity's cultural heritage in what they call following Islam.

Now that the refugees have stared coming to Europe in large numbers, EU politicians will have to act, because soon the people will ask what is this all about, who started the war and funded it and why. The war will now have to come to an end one way or the other - either by increasing the efforts to topple Assad or by doing a deal and talking with Assad.

No one knows what course of action will be followed by the politicians, but I think it will be General Lord Dannatt's suggestion of talking with Assad or asking Putin to do a deal which removes Assad but leaves his side essentially in charge.

So it IS in Russia's economic interests to support Assad to the very end.

Russia had attempted to grab control of Europe by the goolies, as in the Ukraine and other surrounding States wanting independence, by threatening/turning off the gas/oil taps.

It is in Russia's and Iran's interests to put the blame for this whole conflict on the other pre Western Sunni oil states loosening Russia's grip and supplying energy directly to the west, by alleging this is all about those Sunnis trying to stop the pro Russia Shia oil/gas States.

I now accept that this IS a factor, but the whole 'Arab Spring' concept for citizen freedom, or the need for Sunnis to protect themselves from Shia governments in Syria and Iraq, is the OVER RIDING factor - and why ISIS grew the way they did.

So if Syrians President Assad goes, its a win-win-win situation for Europe - I like that.

• A Syrian dictator who's father invaded and stayed in the Lebanon for 20 odd years and god knows what else he gets up to sponsoring terror, gets taken out of the picture.

• Europe no longer will be the destinations for millions of Syrians. who can stay home as preferred.

• Europe will benefit from a more secure oil/gas supply than the old one offered by dodgy Putin looking for leverage to keep Europe quiet while invading surrounding old Soviet Union states that want to stay independent.

Of course it is in Russia's interest to have a stable Asad regime rather than a Muslim Brotherhood/ Isis/ Al Qaeda/Jihadist Syria and in the interest of all of Syria's allies (Iran) and also China. As the Rear Admiral interviewed on Sky News a few days ago said, these countries have interests in the region and we have to accept that and do a deal that respects all interests.

'the whole 'Arab Spring' concept for citizen freedom, or the need for Sunnis to protect themselves from Shia governments in Syria and Iraq, is the OVER RIDING factor '

Are you really that naive? Read up about the Arab Spring, but not the Sun newspaper's version. The Right Sector. Svoboda instigated Maidan in Ukraine is a similar artifically created uprising intended to topple an existing regime.

Most people just want to get on with their lives, study, work and let children go to school - not live in tents in UN camps for years with no hope of building a life. That is why they are now paying traffickers to help them get to Germany, in the hope that they can resume their lives. UN camps and tents are not the answer, they want a life, and that is why I think that Germany will now take the lead and force a deal that ends this war that the rich backers of the Jihadis have lost in their attempt to topple Assad and control Europe's energy supplies.

The EU bigwigs and the politicians will now have to act to end the war and resettle and redevelop Syria. The people in the EU will aks questions that could end up damaging the bigwigs' European dream.

"How the Refugees Crisis Is Wreaking Havoc on the European Union

It weathered the Greek debt crisis—but the surge of migrants is posing a major threat to the future of a united Europe.
...
Whether open borders—and the European project itself—are doomed is up for debate. Davis, writing for the Carnegie Europe Center, a foreign affairs think tank, said the Schengen Agreement will probably collapse next year, unless major changes are adopted. Yet Schain believes the accord's demise is unlikely. "Really nobody wants Schengen to break down," he says. "There's just too much at stake."

www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/08/how-migrant-crisis-wreaking-havoc-on-european-union

"Really nobody wants Schengen to break down"

The bigwigs don't, but if things carry on as they are, then soon the people will and the politicians and their media management and spin are losing control of the people as we have seen by the rise of populist parties across Europe and the rise of Corbyn etc. That is why they will now have to find a real solution that doesn't involve resettling tens of thousands of Syrians in Europe.

claig ..... Re your "Are you really that naive? Read up about the Arab Spring, but not the Sun newspaper's version. The Right Sector. Svoboda instigated Maidan in Ukraine is a similar artifically created uprising intended to topple an existing regime."

For some totally unknown reason, you are so FOR citizens rights in the UK against the establishment/government, posting hundreds of times a day here, but not anywhere else - especially under the Russian sphere of influence where ever that may be.
www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/02/putin-kremlin-inside-russian-troll-house

Russia and Iran can, and have, tried to support Assad, no doubt encouraging the Sunni population to leave Syria - putting pressure on the EU they hate as a Brucie Bonus - but at the end of the day, that ONLY leaves a Sunni ISIS to populate Syria, which is a serious flaw in that cunning master plan.

If I was a card player, I would not bet on 18% of the citizens Assad staying if it is not in everyone BUT Russia and Iran's interests, for him TO stay.

And there was I thinking that is was in ISIS's interest to 'hollow out' Syria of its population.

The EU seems more willing to ACCOMMODATE 23 million Syrians, than support Assad in Syria, just dropping a few more bombs on ISIS to step it up a bit.

The Assad/Iranian mercenary forces have fecked up Russia's Syrian 'hollowing out' master plan to get the EU to act/support Assad - there will be loads of bare chest beating in the Kremlin in the months ahead. lol

'you are so FOR citizens rights in the UK against the establishment/government'

Absolutely. I am for the people against the elites. That is why I support UKIP and Farage.

Farage "His policies fill me with dread. But this is what you get when a smug metropolitan elite treat the people with contempt, writes DOMINIC SANDBROOK

Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2637925/His-policies-dread-But-smug-metropolitan-elite-treat-people-contempt-writes-DOMINIC-SANDBROOK".
www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2637925/His-policies-dread-But-smug-metropolitan-elite-treat-people-contempt-writes-DOMINIC-SANDBROOK.html

"Nigel Farage and the fury of the elites

There is a positive kernel to the public support for UKIP, says Brendan O’Neill.

Try as I might, I cannot remember a time when Britain’s various elites were as united in fury as they are now over UKIP leader Nigel Farage."

www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/nigel-farage-and-the-fury-of-the-elites/15045#.Ve7yA62FOic

"Nigel Farage: leading a modern peasants’ revolt against Westminster"

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/24/nigel-farage-ukip-peasants-revolt-westminster-working-class-britons

'The EU seems more willing to ACCOMMODATE 23 million Syrians, than support Assad in Syria, just dropping a few more bombs on ISIS to step it up a bit.'

That is some of the politicians, but they all know that the people won't agree with that, which is why some countries like Germany will now say enough is enough and the war against Assad by the funded Jihadis will have to end.

Assads war - is on HIS OWN PEOPLE - using his own Jihadists, trained and funded by Iran, all under the umbrella/instructions of Russia.

All totally against the interests of the Syrian people, the West and the G.C.C. main Sunni wealthy States within the Gulf, who economically and strategically want to help the West.

Keeping Assad has no upside, whereas a low expectation Syrian 'rebel' army of Syrian citizens running the country, has the potential (under guidance), to both rid the country of ISIS and be inclusive to all citizens within Syria.

Assad within a big card game is a 'busted flush' and only has himself to blame by alienating his own population.

Guardian article from just over 3 years ago.

Have you wondered why the BBC don't ask the refugees in Hungary and Germany whom they prefer, Assad or the Free Syrian Army/ Isis / Al Nusra etc?

"Most Syrians back President Assad, but you'd never know from western media

Jonathan Steele

Suppose a respectable opinion poll found that most Syrians are in favour of Bashar al-Assad remaining as president, would that not be major news? Especially as the finding would go against the dominant narrative about the Syrian crisis, and the media considers the unexpected more newsworthy than the obvious.

Alas, not in every case. When coverage of an unfolding drama ceases to be fair and turns into a propaganda weapon, inconvenient facts get suppressed. So it is with the results of a recent YouGov Siraj poll on Syria commissioned by The Doha Debates, funded by the Qatar Foundation. Qatar's royal family has taken one of the most hawkish lines against Assad – the emir has just called for Arab troops to intervene – so it was good that The Doha Debates published the poll on its website. The pity is that it was ignored by almost all media outlets in every western country whose government has called for Assad to go."

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/jan/17/syrians-support-assad-western-propaganda

If the Syrian refugees were anti Assad, you can bet your boots the BBC wouldn't fail to mention it.

Straight from Putin's mouth - as you try polling 12 million displaced Syrian citizens - yet find the ones supported/protected by a murderous government then winning the war, nicely in situ.

Rod Liddle in the Spectator

"It??s time we apologised to Assad ?? he had a point about those rebels"
...
"I saw MPs Peter Hain and Andrew Mitchell agreeing with each other on Newsnight about the need, now, to talk to President Assad
...
If I could see, two years back, that Assad was infinitely preferable to the majority of those people who took arms against him, then why couldn??t our politicians?
...
Of course we should speak to Assad and, foul though he may be, first say ??um??. sorry????you might have had a point about those rebels??.??."

blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2014/09/its-time-we-apologised-to-assad-he-had-a-point-about-those-rebels/

These are the questions that Rod Liddle in the Spectator is asking, but soon people all over Europe will be asking the same thing, and that is what worries the elites and that is why there will be a deal and the start of talks with Assad.

Rod Liddle a few years ago in the Spectator. The elite won't be inviting him to their dinner parties anytime soon.

"Why aren??t we asking what proportion of Syrians back the uprising?

What proportion of the Syrian population is fully in support of the continued uprising against the country??s authoritarian leader, Bashar al-Assad? It is not a question I have heard addressed often ?? not by our journalists bravely reporting from beneath the Syrian army??s mortar attacks, nor indeed by those sitting at home writing for outraged liberal broadsheets, demanding we arm the rebels, or at least do something. Still less have I heard the issue addressed by the European Union and its odd new allies in this struggle ?? al-Qa??eda, Hamas and the notoriously democratic government of Saudi Arabia."

www.spectator.co.uk/columnists/rod-liddle/7684223/why-arent-we-asking-what-proportion-of-syrians-back-the-uprising/

Claig .. have you heard the saying that a week in politics is a long time?

You can rehash 100 articles of 1-4 years ago saying what a good egg Assad might be, but there are millions of Syrians since then, that have voted with their FEET.

Answer me on how the 75% of Syrian Sunni citizens Assad and his mercenaries has bombed in their homes and displaced over 4-years, could ever trust him again - as he has preferred to take them on, rather than ISIS, when the government had a 50-50 option?