Greece part II

[Hullygully]

I would be very grateful if we could keep this about Greece, and those (two) who want to dance up and down jibing at Claig and calling her a fool and a kremlinbot and an anti-semite, start their own thread for that purpose.

Cheers

According to the Daily Mail, the Independent is saying that Greece is being advised to possibly sue Goldman Sachs. Not that that is of any real use now.

"But Greece could be in with a chance of clawing back some of its losses after threats of potential legal action against Goldman Sachs came to light.

The company is said to have made almost £500million from transactions known as 'swaps', though it denies that figure, it has been reported.

Oxford-educated Antigone 'Addy' Loudiadis was said to have been paid up to $12million to help seal the deal of gaining Greece's entry to the single currency, according to the Independent"

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3156975/D-Day-Greece-Prime-Minister-Alexis-Tsipras-warns-country-reached-demarked-line-begs-government-accept-humiliating-climbdown-austerity-bail-out.html

'Oxford-educated Antigone 'Addy' Loudiadis was said to have been paid up to $12million'

What is the betting that he is a PPE? Off to google.

Antigone is a woman. I know Racine wrote a play called Antigone but I never read it, should have done then I would have not have made such an elementary mistake.

Blimey, Antigone is in Sophocles' Oedipus, I always throw the word Oedipus around when I want to baffle fellow drinkers and diners at the Dog and Duck, but I have never read it and didn't know Antigone was in it.

I've got to stop reading the Daily Mail and start catching up with the classics.

According to the Financial Times about a week ago, there are three possibilities

1. The Greek government is incompetent.

1. Tsipras was bluffing

1. Tsipras thinks he can get some sort of debt relief

Apparently, any new loans would be under the treaty-based European Stability Mechanism and that explicitly contemplates the possibility of debt relief. According to the FT, this may give all parties a way to "come out of some of the trenches they have dug".

www.ft.com/cms/s/0/43b1c5c4-1ff2-11e5-aa5a-398b2169cf79.html#axzz3faA0GLoP

Excellent anti-austerity contribution by Norman Lamont on Any Questions. He says the debt shoud be written off.
Starts at 42.00 minutes in

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0612rhz#auto

Claig .. re above and your "Apparently, any new loans would be under the treaty-based European Stability Mechanism and that explicitly contemplates the possibility of debt relief. According to the FT, this may give all parties a way to "come out of some of the trenches they have dug".

It matters not what 'write offs' Norman Lamont suggests, as it the democratic process of 18 other Eurozone countries (struggling economically) and footing the bailout bills that matters, and they ain't willing or TRUST Greece's politicians.

*The 'Debt Relief' is likely to be to lighten the repayments by EXTENDING THE MATURITY dates of the Greek loans.

P.S. If you have a mortgage and extend the maturity date by 5-10-years, the full cost of borrowing the original amount rockets, already in miliples

As time goes on, only those with very expensive kit can mine it, so it would end up concentrating wealth even more in the hands of the already privileged than is already the case!

No, you just band together with others to create your own private botnet. Blockchain enabled money is currently the only democratic money there is.

I really recommend people read Thomas Piketty. He explains very well the pitfalls of the gold standard.

The difference between a currency based on the gold standard and the Blockchain is the gold standard can be corrupted. The Blockchain cannot. Also, the units of the Blockchain currency can be divided millions of times, so, to use bitcoin, 1 Satoshi could be 1 millionth of a bitcoin, or in the future, a billionth. As it is fixed, there will never be more than 21Mn bitcoins, it will keep its value, and as more and more people use it it will only gain in value. That is where it can be compared to gold. Unfortunately some people (the FED) are rehypothecating gold and forcing the price down in a short sighted attempt to keep private investors out.

Wit a currency built on the Blockchain this cannot happen. You can only spend what you have, once the money has left your possession it belongs to the other partner in the transaction and all transactions are in the public ledger.

That's the beauty of the Blockcnain suzanne, it's not controlled by any one entity, it's democracy in action

I know DrTwo:)
but doesn't that mean it will be suppressed because those who currently have the whip hand have far too much to loose if it were to replace our smoke and mirrors currency:(

Looks like Yanis was right about Schauble

Doctor -

You make banding together in botnets sound easy! First of all the barrier to entry is quite high: you need to understand exactly how to mine the money and then retain it safely. You need to download specialist software and have a basic understanding of how to keep the money you mine safe

This doesn't then rule out the other disadvantage, which is that wealthy people with fiat can still overcome your processing power through buying extremely high spec computers and mining more than a botnet made of 10,000 normal laptops.

This immediately privileges the already wealthy and already technologically savvy.

The problem with gold standard is more fundamental - any currency based on a finite resource will have low inflation. That's a bad thing or people without assets and wealth, and for countries with huge debt. Inflation reduces the cost of your debt and reduces the value of wealth. That's a good thing for reigning in inequality.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30778491

suzanne, the most popular form of payment in Africa is M-Pesa, a P2P payment system via mobile phones that cuts out the middle man. As bitcoin becomes more mainstream the public will be able to see they too can bank without the thieves taking their 'share'.

The problem with gold standard is more fundamental - any currency based on a finite resource will have low inflation.

In which case, why is every chancellor in charge of fiat economies so invested in keeping inflation down? Kind of defeats your argument, no?

Inflation reduces the cost of your debt and reduces the value of wealth. That's a good thing for reigning in inequality.

Oh. Em. Effing. Gee. Inflation increases the cost of your debt. Are you perchance a banker? And as for reining in inequality, the only time in history that has happened is between 1945 and 1979. Troofact.

Well quite - why are they so invested in keeping inflation down? Should they be? It benefits the richest in society to have low inflation, so one might say that there is a lobby to keep inflation as low as possible.

How does increasing inflation increase the cost of debt?

I've read a few books and articles on the subject of crypto currency (most of the detail of which I seem to have filed away to somewhere in my mind not immediately accessible) and I feel you are overstating the mining aspects of crypto currency Alyosha.

As bitcoin becomes more mainstream the public will be able to see they too can bank without the thieves taking their 'share'

maybe....just get to that tipping point and power to the people

then again isnt uncle Dave trying to ban encryption right now
www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/uk-governments-surveillance-plans-could-put-citizens-and-entire-internet-at-risk-argue-leading-computing-experts-10373940.html

There are people in our country who find it difficult enough to access high speed internet, Suzanne. How will they mine bitcoin?! I think the logistics of it are hugely limiting to those in the know.

Also as mtgox has shown, there will always be an appetite for people to store even crypto currencies, so I don't think banks would go away either...

afaik no one needs to mine bitcoin Alyosha, here is the bitcoin wiki if you want to read up on it
en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Main_Page

there will always be an appetite for people to store even crypto currencies
sure but you dont need a bank to store your crypto currency

Alyoha, you are not the poster I was referring to in connection with the Kremlinbot gambit.

*Alyosha

Though after your recent posts, I think the time has come to include you.

Yes, you can buy bitcoin, but the real money is in mining it. As the pools have got smaller you now need huge amounts of processing power (ie own v expensive computers and a specialised cooling system) to mine. Not exactly power to the people...

And where would you store bitcoin? Somewhere that gave you interest, perhaps? You know, similar to a...bank?

in your bit coin wallet obviously

Anyhoo back in the REAL world with REAL currencies to buy your groceries from a Greek market stall, thanks to Syriza, they'll have to store their money down their knickers/boxers.

Tsipras and his clowns by waiting months to accept a WORSE deal for the people and the subsequent closing of the banks for a few weeks, has sealed the fate of many of those Greek banks.

Even with a Euro rescue (still no better than 60-40 for) the NEXT Greek crisis will be a banking one, as several names will disappear as domestic banks either close or merge.

Even then, as Japan found during their financial crisis, merging several weak banking institutions just makes one honking large 'zombie' bank, hardly the financial engine needed to support/grow Greek businesses equally on their knees due to the banking crisis, thanks to Syriza who 'rolled the dice' and lost.