The Greek debt crisis....why?

[InDespair]

cant find another thread about this so.....

Before anyone accuses me of being thick or burying my head in the sand, I can';t always watch the news in full, and I dont read newspapers. (and Im sure others are wondering too).

Who exactly is in debt?

the people?

the banks?

How did they get themselves into this mess, and why and how do they expect a bailout?

what have they spent all their money on?

And what about tourism?

Laymans terms please.

This is Professor James K Galbraith again

"The irony of the case is that the true hope—the only hope—for Europe lies in a “No” vote on Sunday, followed by renewed negotiations and a better deal. “Yes” is a vote for fear, against dignity and independence. Fear is powerful—but dignity and independence have a way of coming back."

This is what the Greek people achieved for all of Europe and ths is why Farage saluted the courage of the Greek people in standing up to the servants' threats.

Independence is back, democracy is back, and the elites are on the back foot. The unelected servants thought they could frighten the people and show all of Europe that they better buckle. But Varoufakis rode in on a black motorbike and wiped the smiles off their smug servant faces.

The whole world tuned in and saw the bankers' bluff called by the Greek people led by Marxist academics. It is incredible and it may spell the end of the entire elite project. As Farage said "the EU project is dying", and the Greeks may have driven a stake through its heart to free the people of Europe, restore democracy and make the banks serve the people rather than the elites.

'They're still totally fucked'

Absolutely because the political servants transferred private bank debt to public European taxpayer debt hoping that the Greek people would not be able to get out of that one and cut the chains that bound them.

But nevertheless, the Greeks beat the political servants and the world has witnessed it The EU is now facing its worst crisis since the creation of the Euro. The entire EU project may be derailed and the servants and their masters are meeting in panic, cursing Varoufakis and calling him a vary fakin bad man, as they try to plug the holes in their dyke after the Greek people stuck two fingers up to the lot of them.

Farage is laughing, the Greek people are laughing and the real left wing are laughing. The servants aree sweating. They didn't count on democracy.

I'm not sure the Greek people will be laughing as food and medicines run out and employers can't pay salaries. I'm not necessarily arguing that they should have voted yes, just that the situation is a nightmare for everyone. The EU establishment is not suddenly going to roll over and offer a massive debt write off.

This is much bigger than just Greece. This threatens the entire Eurozone and maybe even the EU project. There will be winners and losers in the geopolitical game of high stakes poker.

Germany has been played and has been set up and they have lost. France will begin to abandon them, and will cut and run to do a deal. The IMF has sabotaged the whole game by saying that some of Greece's debt should be written off and the real elephant in the room is of course the United States, the ultimate winner, who have said lttle but have not been particularly anti Syriza.

This is from back in April

"Greece's finance minister Yanis Varoufakis is due to meet President Barack Obama on Thursday, in a sign that Athens is appealing to the highest levels of international diplomacy to secure its future in the eurozone.

Mr Obama has previously indicated his support for the Leftist government, calling for a fast and equitable solution to the country's debt crisis.

"You cannot keep on squeezing countries that are in the midst of depression," the US president said in February following Syriza's election victory."

www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11534402/IMF-warns-Greek-negotiations-are-not-working-as-Athens-ramps-up-default-threats.html

Germany has been outplayed and has lost. There are lots of winners and the EU servant class of unelected bureacrats who lorderd it over Europe is the loser.

There is no way the EU Leaders will want to lose face and roll over and offer more bailout.

If they do it leads the way to countries like Spain that are also struggling to do the same as Greece.

SideOrder, that is the dilemma the EU elite are in. They are in a hole, if they keep digging, they may bring down the foundations of their entire EU edifice.

The entire class of bought and paid for politicians have suffered a major defeat. Some of the political class will panic and begin to cut and run as populist and left wing parties benefit from this revolution. Will the rest of the world help the EU elite, or will they sit back and laugh as they watch their power drain away?

It's high stakes, it's poker and it is about the future of the EU. Merkel has rushed to meet Hollande. Finance ministries are in a flurry, and it's all because of a man on a motorbike called Varoufakis, and the rascal isn't even sorry.

... though Varoufakis is, of course, sans job as a result of his childish rhetoric. Which I would argue is good news for Greece.

"I shall wear the creditors’ loathing with pride.

We of the Left know how to act collectively with no care for the privileges of office."

yanisvaroufakis.eu/2015/07/06/minister-no-more/

Varoufakis has beat them, he is taking the piss out of them. He has dropped them in it, and boy do the servants hate the sight of him! His name is akin to a swear word in bankers' banquets and in EU servants' stables.

Yanis is a hero.

He has acted with integrity and honour and told the truth to the world.

No one likes that, least of all a bunch of leaders who know they are lying and acting in bad faith.

But I don't think he is "taking the piss" I think he is genuinely disgusted by the insistence on lying.

I agree, by "taking the piss", I really meant that he has humiliated them and shown them up for their empty threats and lies and servant status. From their lofty point of view, this uppity Marxist on a motorbike, who incidentally is a better qualified economist than all the servants combined, has effectively taken tbe piss out of their status and office.

"We of the Left know how to act collectively with no care for the privileges of office."

Privilege is all the servants have been granted, but Vaaroufakis has principle.

I've just read Mr Varoufakis' blog explaining his reasons for resigning. I'm gobsmacked that it's because other finance ministers don't want him around the table. Mind you, they're mostly ex bankers, and he's an economist who knows what he's talking about. I hope his replacement is just as implacable.

For once democracy is winning against the unelected Troika. Let's hope it continues and those banks who took the risks are forced to take the hit, especially after they transferred those risks and losses onto the public.

claigy, claigy, claigy.....I asked you early on why you have not got involved in this post and you said that this was outside your area of expertise, but now after a Marxist government win, we see post after post after post of Kremlin-esk anti Western, EU comments - hopefully soon you will make your daily 'quota' - as reams of propaganda adds nothing to the thread. IMO

www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/02/putin-kremlin-inside-russian-troll-house

• The BAD news is numb-nut Greek politicians GOT them into this mess, and now dumb-shit Greek politicians have dug a bigger hole.

• The GOOD news is that whatever happens to the Greek people now, they democratically decided it, as no one can saw they wasn't warned by the EU.

• Varoufakis FAILED the Greek people as his confrontational style got them nowhere, as Greece's economic prospects grew worse.

• Varoufakis was NOT someone the EU 'could do business with', but there's plenty of others within Syriza that will NOW kill any proposals from the EU in the name of Greek democracy.

As others are saying, lets see how this plays out, but lets see what happens domestically when the PM promise of a 48-hours deal after a 'NO' vote doesn't materialise, - as it usually takes LONGER that 2-days for dodgy economically illiterate left wing politicians promises to fall apart.

A Marxist Greek government having rejected EU deals, drifting ever closer to Russia/Putin, emboldened they have a mandate from the people to end austerity however it can be done, is highly likely - as their future is no longer in the Eurozone.

So no more throwing good money after bad, please.

'I'm gobsmacked that it's because other finance ministers don't want him around the table'

Can you imagine what the meetings are like? Varoufakis is a PhD and Professor in Economics, Mathematical Statistics and Game Theory and they are mainly clowns pretending to have a handle on endogenous growth theory. Oh to be a fly on the wall and to see Varoufakis make laughing stocks out of their economic theories!

They have the arrogance to dictate whom they are prepared to talk to, even though Varoufakis is a Greek government appointed Finance Minister. They would prefer to speak with someone like them, someone who is clueless and takes orders.

The Greeks are not going towards Putin. You fail to understand the interests of the United States. Nothing major happens in Europe without the United States being in agreement.

"Mr Obama has previously indicated his support for the Leftist government, calling for a fast and equitable solution to the country's debt crisis."

The EU is on its way down and that suits the world elites. The EU servants overreached themselves and thought they could influence the world and now they are being brought down to size.

This was in April

"Greece's finance minister Yanis Varoufakis is due to meet President Barack Obama on Thursday, in a sign that Athens is appealing to the highest levels of international diplomacy to secure its future in the eurozone."

What country's Finance Minister gets to meet Obama? It's practically unheard of.

The Greek David has fired a slingshot at the European Goliath and the world is watching to see the mighty EU servants topple.

Oh hello, has claig been mainlining caffeine again?

I'm waiting for claig to blame rootless cosmopolitans. You can feel it coming, can't you?

I have a ground bean coffee machine and it makes a jolly nice cup, so I do tend to overindulge.

'to blame rootless cosmopolitans'

No, this is about servants overeaching themselves. The world elites, capitalists and corporations have decided that the EU got too big for its boots and it is now being brought down to size.

Germany is the leader of the EU and it is Germany that is the biggest loser and other European governments will begin to panic and call for a deal to stop the entire house of cards collapsing.

Oh to be a fly on the wall and to see Varoufakis make laughing stocks out of their economic theories

This was about negotiations, not economic theories. Syriza tried to persuade the other governments to offer them a deal that their electorates would find unacceptable. No amount of economic theory can help with that. Indeed, given the damage Syriza has done to the Greek economy in the short time it has been in power, it seems that any knowledge Varoufakis may have of endogenous growth theory (or any other economic theory you care to mention) did not translate into an ability to run Greece's economy.

Clearly the U.S. who gets to listen to the inner workings of western governments KNOWS the 'danger' is that Greece will come under Russian influence.

But it is NOT U.S. money underpinning an economically incompetence left wing government, so who gives a flying fudge what THEY say???

Claig .... re your "The EU is on its way down and that suits the world elites." ....who writes this sort of shite over the last two pages, as having told us that you were a Conservative voter for years, then far Right UKIPPER led by an ex City Commodity broker, it certainly is not you???

Either your 'cover' or stated politics is a bit sniffy, which is it?

No there has been intransigence from the EU at most stages. They thought they could intimidate the left wing Syriza government and the Greek people.

Here is Professor James K Galbraith again

"The creditors rejected even this. They insisted on austerity and also on dictating its precise shape. In this they made clear that they would not treat Greece as they have any other European country. The creditors tabled a take-it-or-leave-it offer that they knew Tsipras could not accept. Tsipras was on the line in any case. He decided to take his chances with a vote.

The stunned and furious reaction of the European leaders was, possibly, not entirely inauthentic. Perhaps they did not realize they were dealing with"

The Greek government called their bluff and won. They refuse to deal with Varoufakis anymore because he runs rings around them and refuses to take orders. But the fact that Greece has accepted Varoufakis going indicates that there will be a compromise deal as the world watches on.

The bubble of invincibility of the EU mandarins has been burst by Greece and now the world capitalists are sitting back and waiting for the loss of power of Germany and the EU political class.

What country's Finance Minister gets to meet Obama

Not Varoufakis. The reports were based on claims by the Greek government. The reality is that he attended a reception at the White House as the representative of the Greek government. There was no private meeting with Obama.

"Mr Varoufakis' blog explaining his reasons for resigning. I'm gobsmacked that it's because other finance ministers don't want him around the table. Mind you, they're mostly ex bankers, and he's an economist who knows what he's talking about."

LOL. It couldn't possibly be because he is a jackass who called them "terrorists"

Just out of curiosity, what exactly do you think bankers study before getting hired to work in financial institutions such as banks?

'But it is NOT U.S. money underpinning an economically incompetence left wing government, so who gives a flying fudge what THEY say???'

The whole world cares what the United States says and the political class in Europe do too. Varoufakis went to meet Obama. I don't know i he was on his motorbike or not. The EU servants refuse to deal with Varoufakis and Obama met him. The servants were probably fuming.

"Mr Obama has previously indicated his support for the Leftist government, calling for a fast and equitable solution to the country's debt crisis."

The IMF said a few days before the referendum that some of teh Greek debt should be written off.

The EU servant class were probably fuming as they have insisted on no write off after they transfered private bank debt to public taxpayer debt.

Germany has lost and its intransigence has been defeated. Watch france now crack and put pressure on Germany as the defeat becomes clearer. The mighty EU has been shown to be a paper tiger and that is what the global corporations wanted.