Leaving children 'home alone' - what do you think?

[KateMumsnet]

Hello all

A parent is arrested for leaving their child alone every day, according to new research.

The law doesn't currently specify the age at which children can be left on their own - and charges in the last three months of last year involved children between the ages of three months and 14 years.

What do you think? How old were your DC when you left them 'home alone' - and would you like to see the age at which a child can be left unsupervised defined in law?

Yes you're right, it's about what feels right to the parent, absolutely.

It does feel right to me to leave my two older boys for a short time. I feel that they are able to cope and they like the responsibility. I understand that other people don't feel this way about their own children and I respect that viewpoint.

I'm obviously aware of the McCanns and I don't think this compares. I'm not leaving my much younger child asleep in a foreign country while I go out for the evening. I'm leaving my older, prepared, children awake in their own house while I am out for a short time.

I haven't insinuated that anyone with an opposing view to mine is wrong or tried to change their mind. It's up to the parent after all.

2boys Just because other countries do don't make it right The thing is, if you were bought up in (for example) Germany, you'd think it was right. It's only because you weren't that you feel the way you do. It's a cultural difference dependant on where you live. We could just as easily say "Just because the Brits don't do it doesn't make it right"

I have lived in Germany, Cyprus and Spain and imo children are much less 'mollycoddled' in all 3. I remember sitting on a beach in a fishing village in Spain watching kids as young as 3 use boning knives to gut fish that their parents then chucked on the barbecue. I was astounded at the skill and the lack of blood! I wouldn't let DD do that now because she'd take a finger off.

When I first had DD in Germany I used to walk her to the local shop morning and afternoon and always encountered the kids going to and from school, alone, across 2 very busy roads. I was impressed with them, because even after 5 years in Germany (at that stage) I still had a hard time working out the "pedestrians crossing on a green car light" but they had it down to a tee.

My dh started leaving our ds for short periods to go to our local garage to get a paper/bottle of milk etc when he was about 8. He'd probably be away 15 minutes. I wasn't terribly comfortable with that and didn't do it myself and would drag ds out with me. But my ds is now 12 and in year 7, he walks to school on his own (10 minutes each way) and occasionally lets himself into the house. He started walking home on his own in the summer of year 5 but I walked with him to school as I wanted to be sure he'd got there.

A legal age would be sensible just so that people knew where they stood, but of course it would be rubbish for those with more mature children who would be fine to be left on their own from the age of 7, whereas others wouldn't be left until they were 17! Maybe people should mind their own business and report people if they think the child is seriously at risk, not just because it doesn't accord with their views on parenting? Then we could all get on with our lives.

As for the McCanns, I would never have left a 4 year old child on their own in a hotel/apartment bedroom while on holiday and I don't just say that with the benefit of hindsight. I didn't even leave my son in the car when I was paying for petrol unless I could see right into the car at all times while in the queue to pay and I was generally only away for 2-3 minutes. But I'm not sure you can legislate for different attitudes to risk.

A lot can happen in 30mins, McCann's were just an example what could happen albeit 3 or 8 etc, it doesn't sit right for me and I do think there should be a law in place for some guide line at least ... But this is imo sorry if its "wrong" but to me its not,

I don't know the stats on that Em but I'll happily read them if you post them on here.
In the US, some states set a limit of 12 or 14. By your argument the kids there must be less capable than ours!?
Of course it's nonsensical to think in that way. Different countries have different laws. Do I think a German 6 year old should be left alone? No. Do I think a 6 year old from Illinois should be left alone? No. I don't believe in parenting by the lowest common denominator. In some countries it's considered acceptable to smack children but I don't smack mine.

Re going to the pub. You said it is more acceptable to leave the child for a valid reason than a drink in the pub? Hang on though, I thought you were leaving children alone for their benefit? To promote their independence?

And again, it's right for me in my situation.

2- you're not wrong at all. You are prioritising the safety of your children and that is never wrong. And yes Madeleine was 3 (almost 4 actually). There have been posters on this thread who have admitted to leaving 4 year olds and 5 year olds and who have received little criticism from many on here.

The McCann's didn't leave their child alone once. They had left them several times. They had been lulled into the same false sense of security that others on here seem to be wrapped up in ("It's ok cause it's only to go to Brownies/only for 10 mins/ they did it last week and were ok/they're asleep anyway"). If you think the fact they were on holiday made it worse then, sadly, I fear you are clutching at straws.

2boys - but what if you took your child with you and - God Forbid - something happened?. You might have a car accident, or be hit by a car whilst walking. The risk is tiny, but it's not zero. You can't avoid all risks, and taking a child out the house with you everywhere you go doesn't necessarily reduce the risks there are.

Worst what if I left my child for 10mins than got hit by a car ? What would my home alone child do then?
No not clutching at straws was just giving a well document example! I know of parents leaving children while just popping here and there and I don't agree with it and think a guideline law put in place because until then you will have "there is no law so I can leave them at blah blah blah" I'm not saying I'm right I'm saying its imo,

flowergirl, I don't get the example about bullying. If you felt that by leaving your child at home there was a risk that someone would hurt them,ie a sibling who they fought with alot,you would take one of them with you. It is all about the risk assessment which in simplified terms for those who do not know is

1. What could happen 2)how likely is it to happen
2. how much harm could be caused by that thing happening

If you were to leave your kids unsupervised in a family swimming pool for example,there would be a higher risk of harm than leaving them reading a book. If you left them cooking bacon there would be more risk than if they were knitting.To worry about them being abducted by strangers or the house spontaneously combusting is such a very low risk that to me it barely registers and I deal with it by making sure they know about stranger danger and fire safety.

So,for me, if I leave the kids at home I (until recently) always ensured that no-one was cooking and everyone was happily settled either reading or watching something. I recently did leave my 12 year old cooking tea and she did manage to set off the smoke alarms(a regular occurance in our house) and when we got home she had tea cooked and doors/windows open and alarm sorted and thought it was all quite funny. She has been taught what to do in that situation and also knows what to do if the food or house catches fire.
I would like to know what it is that people think will happen to their children whilst they nip out. The 2 occasions we do it is when my husband collects me from work (1.5 miles away...not a busy road) and when I collect him from the station(10-15 min round trip) The kids are always asked and sometimes one may want to come. I would never never leave a kid who was not happy to be left,I think that is a whole other kettle of fish.

I very much doubt that 2 would be charged with neglect for taking her child out with her, even if that child got injured Yellow. In the car, i daresay 2 would use a car seat. When walking, I'm guessing that 2 uses the pavement and crosses the road carefully. She probably holds her young child's hand. I'll bet she, as an adult, takes adult precautions that young children simply aren't capable of because young children tend to be far more spontaneous- less likely to assess risk before acting.

After all, if our 7 year olds are capable of being left entirely alone, you'd assume that by 12 they ought to be capable of living alone- and yet they aren't.

blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tomchiversscience/100184181/why-we-need-to-teach-parents-about-risk-and-statistics-in-the-wake-of-the-april-jones-horror/

the point is, from the above article,that your child is up to 75x more likely to be killed in a fatal road accident than abducted by strangers so arguably they are safer left at home than exposed to that danger

So basically some parents want a law introduced because they feel uncomfortable about others parenting skills when it has nothing to do with them.

Vdb, the example about bullying was that you expect your child to be supervised at school. You would, I imagine, be annoyed to discover that your child had been harmed/upset whilst not being properly supervised at school.
And your example about swimming v reading isn't at all correct. No child is ever unsupervised in a pool. That's what lifeguards are for.

And again, re cooking. You say they don't because they aren't when you leave but how do you know they won't? That's why the NSPCC suggest that a child is capable of being left alone when they can safely use a cooker. Not because they will but because they might.
And again on risk assessments (I have already said this) they only assess risk, they do not protect against it. Accidents happen all the time where risk assessments have been completed. In fact, on your last column 'likely outcome', risk assessments very often state 'death'! Proper risk assessments have more categories by the way. You assess the risk then you state what you will do to safeguard against it. You might therefore state- child uses cooker. Risk of death- Measures taken- adequate supervision at all times.

No, there's a big difference between being at home alone briefly and living alone, obviously. I think you're insulting people's intelligence to assume that of them.

As has been said by several posters, as parents we teach our kids to become independent in many small steps, we don't think "right, I left my 10 year old for an hour so next year when he's 11 he'll be able to pay bills and fix the boiler". That's learnt over many years.

As an example, I was allowing my oldest son to buy a small item from the corner shop at the age of three; I would give him the money and stand in the doorway of the shop, watching while he chose the item, queued up, and paid for it. He waited for any change, and thanked the person who served him. Now he's older I don't need to stand watching him, and he can figure out a different choice of what to buy. That doesn't mean that I would allow him to walk to the shop on his own yet as I consider it to be too far.

Risk assessment for using roads. Risk of death. Measures taken- child supervised at all times. Reminders about road safety when walking. Hold child's hand.

Risk assessment for using car. Risk of death. Measures taken- high quality car seat used. Car safe (passed MOT). Adult ensures seat belt is secured. Adult drives at appropriate speeds etc etc.

The addition of the adult makes a huge difference.

Sewing- my child buys things in shops independently. I stand at a distance watching her. At 8 I think that's reasonable. At 3 if you're watching it's also reasonable. You are there watching- that's the point.
And yes, a huge difference between coping for an hour and coping full time but there's also a difference between being 7 and being 12. If you think an hour is ok at 7, how many hours would be ok by 12??

At 12 I would think about 5 hours, but not regularly.

A 5 hours stint? So pretty well all day then? Which hours of the day would you consider unsafe then? Why 5? Are they safe between 9 and 2 but not after 4?

Actually I disagree that if a child is old enough to walk to school then they are old enough to be left at home, even for a few hours.

When my son walks to school there are plenty of other familiar adults about. If there was a problem he could speak to them and if something happened then someone would know. If something happened at home noone would know.

Having said that I have been leaving my children for gradually increasing periods of time since they were about 9. But I still wouldn't leave my 11 and 12 yr old for more than 2 hours. Not so much for safety reasons as because I don't want them just holing up in front of a screen for hours on end. And the 12 yr old in particular wouldn't like it - she's her lonely.

I've not left them for an evening yet, though we are getting close - if we were just very local.

I was talking about homes with private pools.....kids do swim unsupervised,as do adults.
My 8 year old does know how to cook.But the risk of her deciding to cook when she has already been fed,has been told not to cook and is glued to a screen or book is very low. The risk of her deciding to do so anyway and managing to kill herself in the process is so low it is not even on my radar. How many examples in real life can you give me of children killed by cooking alone? There would be far more examples of children harmed,getting in the way of parents cooking.
I know that in reality my child is not supervised all the time at school,there would have to be a much higher ratio of adults for that to happen. As parents we expect school to reassure us that they are talking to the kids about acceptable behaviour/bullying/inclusion etc and taking appropriate action when kids misbehave. At home we are hopefully giving them the tools to manage at school too. If school had set all the kids up with dangerous activities to do and left them unsupervised I would be cross but in our primary school, the librarians are 10/11 year old year 6's who are left in charge,presumably because it is considered that it is a low risk activity.

Vdb- you were talking about private pools???!?! Well that's a lot of people covered then!

You ask how many people have been injured/killed by cooking. Can I suggest you look up statistics on house fires and likely ways in which they are started!!

Just had a look on German sites - no law just like in the UK, but advice is that from age 6 children can be left alone, up to two hours at age 7.

It says specifically that this should be practised so that when the need arises parents don't have to worry about finding someone to look after the child at short notice.

Re the 5 hour stint - any time in normal working hours. Cold packed lunch provided so no use of cooker needed. Trusted adult just a phonecall away. Responsible girl who spent the time doing homework, reading and watching tv. Several texts/phone calls to make sure she was ok.

Em- any time in normal working hours. So you have concerns then about people who leave 12 year olds alone in the evening?