Comments of dress and rape

[Blandmum]

Cleric suspended for his comments linking dress to rape

I am very pleased that the mosque comittee has suspended him for 3 months to ponder on the inadvisability of his comments. Postivie too was the way the Australian muslim community has condemned him.

His comments linking uncovered women to 'meat' were utterly repugnant

well natural can mean pertaining to nature but it can also mean happening in the usual or ordinary course of things - and I don't believe that rape NEEDS to exist therefore doesn't happen in the 'ordinary course of things'.

what is incorrect MT? The rape stats Piffle alluded to? i was under the impression that most rapes were commited by people you know, is that not correct?

rape is only natural in as much as men are generally stronger than women and therefore can force women to have sex with them.
but it is a pretty basic cultural norm for women to be able to restrict sexual access.

i guess murder is natural too - not quite sure how people are meant to avoid it.

Yes that is true Ruty, what I never said was that women were free from rape in societies where they cover up. Sorry for the misunderstanding Harpsi.

Foxy, I mean natual in the scientific sense, as you say, pertaining to nature - not the emotive sense.

I'm just trying to have a reasoned and objective discussion about this. It's a very emotive area, and so should only be serioulsy discussed under those conditions. If this were a support thread, of course, I wouldn't speak in these terms.

He only made these comments to stir up a reaction. Idiots like him actually want religious/racial conflict.

We have laws that forbid murder Ruty. We value human life. It doesn't irradiate it but we have less murders in a functioning state than in non functioning ones - and the same with rape. Society, civilisation forbids it and creates consequences for those who commit it.

Obviously, we'll never know how many people are still wandering about because of such laws. Or women who aren't raped because they don't put themselves at risk, becoming paralytic drunk of example.

I disagree, I think this man honestly believes what he says. And he is totaly unused to having his pronouncments questioned. I think what he said oozed hatred for women with ever work he chose to use.

He is like the muslim cleric arested for promoting racial hatred against the jews in the UK. They belive this crap. It isn't islam, but it is what they belive.

When he didn't count on was people listening to him and then questioning him!

I'm not saying in those situations it's their fault. Rape is wrong whatever the situation.

Is there hard evidence that women who wear skimpier clothing are more likely to be raped? If it is there i would genuinely be interested to see it.
It is interesting MT what you say about civil societies and when they break down. I don't think all men have the potential to rape. i don't think it is just about opportunity and getting caught. In times of war rape is another expression of violence towards the opposing ethnic/racial group. do we only refrain from murdering and raping people because of the cultural taboos and laws that prevent us doing so? I don't think you can prove that argument either way.

There is evidence to disprove i believe ruty. A rapist could actually be more intimidated by a woman who dresses provocatively, because she exerts confidence and power. For a rapist to get his kicks, he needs someone who looks vulnerable. A scantily dressed woman rarely looks vulnerable, dont you think?

Kathy - I think there are plenty of women who think that - threads like these usually draw them out too.

The issue of stats, as I think wannabe rightly pointed out would be impossible to achieve. In many, many countries, rape is considered such a shameful thing to happen to a woman, that often her family and husband will disown her. Hardly likely to say anything, is she?

i dont think rape is about sex or power,but about both,some of the time,one or the other at other times.a rapist might find feeling powerful and in control sexually arousing,so that would make it about sex also.
i cant remember who made the point about self-control and used an example of most people dont get down to it in the middle of the street,but i think its a very good point.
ultimatley,adults are responsible for their own behaviour,and if they 'cant' control their urges they shoulnt be allowed out.

But there has to be an issue, or misthought there to trigger the crime - and thus "arousing". Before the arousal, has to come the thought, surely?

Its really not as basic as having uncontrollable sexual urges. In fact, it is very much about being "in control".

diva, I raised the issue about not shagging in the street.

People may well have the desire to do any number of things, but have self control and restraint.

You are right, it is all about being an adult.

This guys comments sound horribly like 'She made me do it' the infantile inability to take responsibility for actions. Sickening.

And instead of saying how women should dress, prehaps should be telling (some) men how to behave.

What next, 'well I wouldn't have racialy abused him if he wasn't in this country?' 'I wouldn't have mugged he if I hadn't seen her just go an pick up her pension' ?

Please!

Skimy cvlothes are more arousing, that's what they're for. What the evidence points to, and what I said in my foirst post is that 'sexual attractivness' is an issue; and I mean that in the scientific sense, not subjective; basically women of child bearing age, who are also statistically going to be more sexually attractive in a more subjective sense. Yes, older women and pre-pubeseant girls do fall victim to rapists, but statistically the vast majority of women fall within the 15-40 age range, the most being teens and early twenties.

I wonder if that age range of rape victims is just because that demographic is the one which is in the social situations which lead to reported rape. IE they're out more, more likely to be unescorted (protected) and therefore more vulnerable to rape which gets reported, than younger and older women.

Will now read the rest of the thread...

in my personal experience(i was raped twice by my abusive exp)i was told that i got 'that' instead of a beating.so it was my fault,for provoking him blah blah but he had the self control to rape me rather than hit me.he also told me afterwards he enjoyed it from a sexual point of view.
it still comes down to the basic thing of adults should be able to control themselves and saying somebody is asking for it for any reason is just making excuses.

diva What a bastard.

but isnt it only something like 2% of rapes that are carried out by random strangers?those rapes may be to do with what the victim looks like,or if she is alone etc,but they arent the majority.

monkeytrousers-surely it depends whos wearing the skimpy clothes as to whether they are arousing or not

MB,yes,he was a bastard,one of many it would seem having read that thread on unreported rape a few weeks ago.

agree with VVV - the thought has to be there before the arousal. Not all men, when they get aroused, like to force a woman to have sex. Many would find it more arousing to be with a women who wants to have sex with him.

It may point to that age group, but there could be many other factors as to why that is.

Vulnerability - more likely to be out and about, meeting men, more varied and frequent social settings and activities, etc.

or age group most likely to report the crime?

Its mirrors the age group of the attacker.

divastrop

Monkeytrousers... Surely the age group 15 - 40 get raped more often because they are the ones that are out and about more. Walk through any town... most women walking about will be that age group.

Of course that's a factor, but the evidence has been tested to allow for corrolation/causation and the fact that they are of childbearing age is more significant than simply being out.