Charlotte Wyatt to go into foster care

[ginmummy]

...because, according to the news, her seperated parents can't give her the care that she needs. It so sad, I want to cry. Poor, poor Charlotte, poor, poor parents.

It will always be different as it's not your child, nor is it a path you've trodden.
it is easy to say, oh I'd have gone along with DNR, turned off a ventilator or whatever.
Until you actually have to do it.
By all means state what you think you would do, but you can not really categorically promise that until it's your path to ride on.
Like if I had been told about dd's condition while I was in early pregnancy I may well have terminated as in some cases it can be serious with severe life issues.
With hindsight and but there for the grace of God go I.

Message withdrawn

but my aunt oesn't only have dowsn syndrome. if she had been born at full term she woul have had DS. instead she was born at 33 weeks and weighing 1lb 4oz

she is severekly brain damaged and has vertually no communictaion skills, global delay, is deaf and mute and basicly functions at about a 18 month olds level.

its far more complex than just DS. there are many who would deem that she has no quality of life.
but what gives them the right to judge

I have completely opposing views to Kitty, but I think everyone has the right to post their opinions on here without being personally insulted.

Well I feel personally insulted by her

Bat,her impairment may be large,but judging from what you say she does,the handicap it poses to her seems small.
Which is fab.

I agree Humphrey.
Kneejerk response is to act outraged at perceived personal slight,instead of listening calmly to what is being said.

yes, but as a child of 3 like charlotte you would have seen a very small baby loking figure just sat in a bouncing chair starring into space.

she had no need for toys, or human interaction seemingly, she didnt even noytice others were around here apparantly.

much like i understadn Charlotte is.

We really dont have crystal balls so shouldn't write her off at such a young age.

I don't think that the reactions to kittywits have been triggered by "perceived personal slight" but more by revulsion at her views.

"but they chose to have the other children after Charlotte was born. If they felt it would have such a dreadful impact on any further children, then I'm
sorry but maybe they should have concentrated on Charlotte."

Is it that simple though...

I was born with no sight, no diagnosis was given, and as a result my mum was scared to have another child with a disability. When I was 7 my mum fell pregnant unexpectedly, and because she didn't want another child like me, because she didn't know what the future held for me, she had a termination.

My disability is obviously not severe, but different people view different disabilities differently. I am 32 now, I am independent, I have a 4 year old child, i do not claim benefits, and the chances are that that child wouldn't have been disabled at all. Since I was 7 I have lived with the realization that, not only did my mother choose not to have children because of me, she chose to terminate a pregnancy because of me.

choosing not to have more children isn't always plack and white.

I think it is very hard, wannabe.

This is not really on topic but women are offered terminations for clubfoot (talipes) now - which is so eminently treatable.

I disagree Kitty, it IS about special needs, because without Charlotte's special needs, there wouldn't BE an issue, would there?

i feel deep compassion for all concerned in this case.I cant say honestly what i would do in this situation so will refrain from passing judgement.But my nephew is quite badly disabled and i know my sis in law would have fought to keep him alive, he is now in his 4o,s has a little job he does in a disabled place of work and is very much loved member of the family ,I may add that he is physically and mentally disabled.

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Kitty, sorry for delay in response, I think you are deliberately trying to mislead readers. I do NOT think that people with extreme points of view that don't concur with mine should be prevented from having children and have never said such a thing. I have asked you twice now though if YOU think that people like Charlotte´s parents should be allowed to have children, and still haven´t got a response. You have criticized them for their decision to try and save their DDs life and you have criticised them for having more children.

IMO you do hold extreme views but claim to be horrified by other extreme views. I am particularly horrified by you referring to the child´s life as a DEBACLE (10:17)

Well I feel we are veering into territory of thought crimes here.You can't unmake people think things.

I work with children and adults with severe severe disabilities and hand on my heart,I know that all these people contribute to society in some way.

As I have said before on mN,I believe that is a a sign of a civilised society to provide unbiased and easily accesible care to peopel with disabilities.

Issue seems more to be one of a father who is not fulfilling his parental duties-to any of his children.

"a sign of a civilised society to provide unbiased and easily accesible care to peopel with disabilities.". hat is absolutely bang on as far as I'm concerned

I think it's a bit heartless to talk about Charlotte's father as not fulfilling his responsibilities though - the man has gone through inconceivable hell which has driven him to the point of suicide. . It's easy to sit in judgement.

Have to say that I think WanneBe1974's post of 2.59 sums it up pretty well for me. People seem to be conflating several issues. It is obviously an extremely emotive subject even when people are talking from an observers point of view, god knows what it is like to actually experience it.

GS,yes.
I have seen the sheer hell that some of 'my' families endure (and conversely,a lot of the joy)

But...I personally think 'Hmmmmmmm' when a man with a number of children goes on to have more with someone else,while not providing materially or emotionally for the first lot.

Doesn't everyone????????

Hulababy, I think yu're right, I said that earlier and it was ignored then- afaik the resuscitation was never required anyway.

I'm not sure I ncecesarily would have made the decisions the Wyatts did either (I might have though, impossible to tell without being them imo). I do, however, believe that they should be given a huge dose of empathy and compassion, for having been palced in what was to be frank an impossible, horrid place with no right path forwards. let your child die? Could I do it? Have an abortion (if baby was unplanned)? in their situation? I've no idea how they survived as long as rhey did. My heart goes out to them.

And I still believe that unless you have experienced SN within a marriage, you cannot understand the pressures it places upon one, indeed the same for severe depression. And unless you truly understand something, how can you effectively plan for it?

Just coming back to this from earlier today and haven't read the whole thing but will do. Just wanted to reapond to the point made earlier

At that point you really aren't thinking of the consequences kitty - you will do anything to keep your child alive. We were told dd wouldn't/couldn't be resus'd if she crashed again in PICU and beleive me I would have resus'd her myself had that happened. You just want your child to stay with you and comtemplating the how/what and wherefores of care afterwards is the last thing from your mind.

Will carry on reading.....

Is anyone familiar the quote which goes something like "...the true measure of a civilisation is how it cares for its' elderly and disabled..."?

Genuine question, not meant to be rhetorical.

Yep, have used it in essays etc.

Do you want me to dig out the originator? I know she was affiliated to the Quakers and the prison reform movement.

How can anybody truly understand what these parents have gone through and how can anybody judge?

I have been there and it isn't a nice place to be!

I had 3 very healthy pregnancies and births. My 4th child came a month early, almost killing me and her. She was at deaths door and we were asked the DNR question. You stand there looking at this little person willing her with every bone in your body to survive. You have a lot of hope that every thing will be ok. You just need to get through the next minute, hour, day, week etc We were also told my child would never walk or talk. She could be deaf, have severe learning difficulties and would probably never be able to swallow. So the DNR, we refused. Her heart stopped, she needed resusitating. She survived

Now she is a child in secondary school. She walks unaided (is wobbly and uses a wheelchair on long journeys), she talks (slury) She is at a normal school, she has normal friends. She can run cross country. She does have a disability but a relatively mild one

Now my point. If we had said yes DNR my child wouldn't be here. Drs really don't know all the answers and do not have a crystal ball. I was told my daughter was severely retarded, that was why she was unresponsive in hospital.....er nope! It was the drugs keeping her alive. As soon as she came home, we could see there was a light in her eyes and that she understood everything

All the Wyatts did was fight for their daughters right to life. And no doubt held out for the ray of hope. Maybe they aren't equiped to deal with her profound special needs, but I'd guess money comes into this story somewhere. As a parent of a child with special needs, getting services is always down to money or the lack of!

And as for preparing for every eventuallity before having a child....tell that to my aunt and uncle (both in their 70's on a state pension) when their 46 year old daughter had a stroke (non drinker, non overweight, non smoker..disease of the blood) and found themselves looking after their child who had lost the use of one side of her body! Have you prepared for that Kitty?

mummydoc to be honest I can't really be bothered to spare a thought for the people who have to ration resources. They should be campaigning for more. I'm too busy fighting for resources for my son (such as threatening the local council with the govt ombudsman because they weren't providing what was in his statement- a suppoded legal entitlement).

I have campaigned on behalf of a group - one local MP refused to respond to my complaint (which was entirely reasonable it was about the complete lack of SALT for chiuldren with ASDs) because I was not in his constituency (never mind that some people I was representing were).

I agree with pretty much everything Greensleeves has written

If we're a county that can afford to spend billions in Iraq we can adfford to make decisions based on care not cost.