islamist extremists strike in france

[KareninsGirl]

My thoughts are with the victims of the latest barbaric act by Islamic extremists.

The world needs to wake up and defend itself.

RIP those who died and prayers for those critically injured.

at French magazine office www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-30710883

You aren't necessarily affluent just because you are white. I don't think quotas are the way forward. But stopping the current unspoken policy of housing different groups in different areas would help.

Science is a strange concept for a western linear argument because much of our pre Renaissance scientific learning came to us from the Arabs, who learned it from the Greeks. It sounds odd to a western mind. But, for hundreds of years, the west was very much behind the East. And for several hundreds of years before that behind the Ancient Chinese.

It wouldn't surprise me if many of the western linearists start their lines with Copernicus, as if there was nobody about before him.

The dead commissioner's name is Helric Fredou. But, there's not much info about at the moment and what there is (unsurprisingly) is mainly written in French.

I know that previous civilisations contributed to our knowledge, but surely it can't be denied that right now it is western countries making advances.

When everyone was panicking over Ebola I saw people posting "why hasn't the US made a vaccine".

I didn't see anyone saying "why hasn't Nigeria or Iraq made a vaccine"

In the case of social advances it is very much a matter of opinion which is 'better', but more freedom for the individual without fear of being killed by a mob of neighbours sounds like an advance to me.

People say "oh the west isn't better just because they have medicine that works, GPs and ambulances on call, warm homes, education, freedom of speech, trial by jury, innocence until proven guilty, Equality under the law for people of every gender or color, phones in every home and pocket, television in nearly every room, leisure time and activities to fill it. Cinemas, Theatres, Gyms and shops.
Did I mention shops? Food delivered to your door or visit a supermarket that's open at night. Aisles of fresh food from every country without rationing.

The west is certainly not more advanced, but inexplicably a lot of people are leaving their homes to move here.

'But, for hundreds of years, the west was very much behind the East.'

This is what we are told and taught on our BBC etc, but it is a politically correct teaching. The successor to the Roman Empire was the Byzantine Empire which lasted 1000 years and continued Greek culture and learning and eventually led to the Renaissance in Italy.

"The migration waves of Byzantine scholars and émigrés in the period following the Crusader sacking of Constantinople and the end of the Byzantine Roman Empire in 1453, is considered by many scholars key to the revival of Greek and Roman studies that led to the development of the Renaissance humanism[4] and science. These emigres were grammarians, humanists, poets, writers, printers, lecturers, musicians, astronomers, architects, academics, artists, scribes, philosophers, scientists, politicians and theologians.[5] They brought to Western Europe the far greater preserved and accumulated knowledge of their own (Greek) civilization."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_scholars_in_the_Renaissance

The resons why Byzantium is downplayed in what we are taught are interesting and probably revolve around the Church as well as today's political correctness.

DoraGora, islamic scholarship which we've subsumed and built on mainly involved mathematics rather than any philosophical principles or promotion of rational thought.

And Greeks and Roman's far preceded Islam and provide much grounding for the principles of our society. Far more than it owes to Idlam.

BOB, I entirely agree with you about professional politicians. DH and I talk about this quite often, last time only yesterday. Our MPs are entirely too cushioned from real life. What we need is MPs who have already followed a different career, for at least 20 years.

Where does it say those people were Muslims Claig? The fact one was a Cardinal suggests not.

'Where does it say those people were Muslims Claig?'

What people? I am saying that Greek culture and learning was kept alive in the Byzantine Empire, where they spoke Greek, and where they spread the knowledge to Venice and Italy and the West. They weren't Muslims. They were Orthodox Christians.

Not only maths, medicine and chemistry owe much directly to the Arabs. Alchemy, even its name. (I'm assuming that you mean learning which has been imported wholesale from the Arabs, rather than translated into Arabic from the Greek and then back into European languages thereafter.)

Sorry Claig, I misunderstood you, I thought you were saying it in a different context, that it proved Islan was progressive.

Perhaps in some ways it was at certain times. But overall it has been a regressive rather than a progressive force I believe.

I suspect that the modern path of Islam and the neglect of learning has had far more to do with the discovery of oil than with religious defects, imaginary or genuine.

It had to do with people's egos.

Islam has been progressive and has taken Greek culture and knowledge and spread learning. The current crop of fanatics Jihadists are a relatively new phenomenon, created in order to destroy Arab unity and enable the exploitation of the people in those countries in order to gain power and oil.

It is not Islam that has led to this, but outside influences which have sought to topple Assad, Saddam, Ghaddafi etc and replace those regimes, generally secular, with more extreme religious elements. The aim has been to weaken these countries and force a Sunni-Shia clash and Isis, this newly created and funded force, is essentially a force used to attack Shia Islam and will probably be used ultimately to try and attack Iran, after Assad has been toppled, if Isis and their backers manage to achieve that goal.

Here is an article on the influence of Byzantium on Islam. The reason we aren't taught much about Byzantium and its Greek Christian culture and legacy in Western Europe is probably to do with the Catholic Church and the schism in Christianity and the fight for leadership in Christianity.

www.mosaicmatters.co.uk/features/islambyzantium.htm

We don't think then that keeping women from being educated might be a backward step?

Isis and their backers

Who are their backers? Do you mean us?

I don't know much about Islam but in Lebanon and Palestine and Iraq and Libya women are educated, they do go to schools and universities. The religious radicals have been created and funded and have been used to create strife and topple Arab nationalist, socialist and progressive leaders in order to set their countries back and allow others to exploit them. Saudi rulers can gamble in Western casinos while their people are subjugated and human rights abuses occur and Western leaders remain quiet as contracts are dished out.

"Considering Islam’s teachings on the fundamental equality of men and women, Shaykh Akram’s work should really be no surprise. The Prophet taught that there is no difference in worth between believers on account of their gender. Both have the same rights and duties to learn and teach – from memorising and transmitting the words of the Qur’an and Hadith to the interpretation of these sources and giving counsel to fellow Muslims through fatwas (legal opinions). Women have the same duty as men to encourage the good and restrain the evil. It follows quite logically from this that if they cannot become scholars and be capable of understanding, interpreting and teaching, they cannot fulfil their duty as Muslims. If the subjugation of women is not the result of Islamic teachings, then why are there such gross violations of women’s rights in the Muslim world today? Relegating the Muslim woman only to the role of a mother and housewife is a relatively modern phenomenon (didn’t Ayesha lead an army and didn’t Umm Salama avert a crisis at Hudaybiyyah?). The definitive cause to this complex and multi-faceted problem is heavily debated, but a few contributing factors are worth tracing here. The hegemony of Western civilisation in the modern world brings with it an inevitability that the Muslim world will fall victim to its own weaknesses. Women have always had a problematic position in the Judeo-Christian tradition, the most obvious example being the Biblical account of Adam and Eve’s fall from the Garden. The source of mankind’s original sin is placed squarely on Eve, who represents the weaker sex in the parable (the pains of childbirth have traditionally been regarded as atonement for this original sin in the Christian faith)."

www.emel.com/article?id&a_id=828

'Who are their backers? Do you mean us?'

I don't mean me and you and the good people of the West. I mean the Saudi and Qatari millionaires and those who stand to gain by allowing the funding of Isis in order to try and topple Assad and create a Sunni-Shia clash by stirring up Muslims, who were once pot-smoking, drinking rappers from banlieus in Paris and elsewhere to join jihad against Assad etc.

Glad to hear it, Claig. It's just that I've been reading a lot of stuff today blaming the west for everything, down to that time the prophet stubbed his toe. (not that we haven't done our share at one time or another)

Seems as though the greatest jihadi of them all was Ibn Saud/(Saudi Arabia) in 1753. Only back then it was all other forms of Islam (save for the one he'd converted to wahabi) who were in the firing line.

www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Wahhabi.aspx

The problem of the jihadi is not new; it's only new to us!

In 1803 the armies of Saud even damaged the tomb of Mohammad during the waging of jihad against other muslims!

I don't know much about Islam but in Lebanon and Palestine and Iraq and Libya women are educated, they do go to schools and universities

I also meet women scientists from Sudan, Iran and Pakistan all the time.

'In 1803 the armies of Saud even damaged the tomb of Mohammad during the waging of jihad against other muslims!'

It's all about power politics. It was the Ottoman Empire. Who funded the armies of Saud and who was against them? Who stood to gain?

Who funds Isis and what are their real objectives? Who stands to gain and who stands to lose? Shia Islam is against Isis, this radical, destructive religious force which seeks to promote strife and set Muslim against Muslim in order to weaken all of them and make them ripe for exploitation.

Not all Muslims are the same, Islam is not as portrayed to us by the fanatics and Jihadists who have been created and funded in order to set their societies back decades and topple any possible enlightenment and advancement.

Who created and funded the Taliban and why? They haven't always been there, people weren't always subject to such strict religious ruling in Afghanistan.