Conservative Carswell defects to UKIP

[Isitmebut]

Modernizer Carwell won the new Clacton seat in 2010 with a large majority, heavily influenced by Ukip deciding not to stand a candidate themselves – so he has found a natural home with those that have a totally anti EU stance, but seems to forget that Ukip without a parliamentary majority cannot change British law to bring us out.

Claig …… after all your rants about right wing ‘modernizers’, you now own another one – so time for you to ‘jump’ the other way? lol

P.S. His defection was hardly cold, but by 1.30pm Wikipedia had been changed to reflect his defection. Who do you think was in a hurry to reflect his move, Ukip or the Conservatives? lol

thanks for the link Claig

Just laughed my socks off at Newsnight and them playing GO WEST by Village People to accompany all Ed's 50 odd uses of the word 'together' in his speech. God knows how many more times he would have used the word had he actually remembered to deliver the full speech! LOL

Alao greatly enjoyed the Shadow Minister for Care who reminded me of Liz Jones and had the nerve to ask the BBC reporter if she was middle class.

These guys are hilarious, as I predicted they would be. They are so amateurish. They make the real amateurs (UKIP)look professional. Just imagine a Milliband v Nige debate. They'd have to open a few new coronary hints beforehand for all of us who would die laughing

Absolutely. they are incompetent clowns who are so desperate that they have to relate chance meetings with ordinary members of the public in order to try and make us believe that they are in touch with ordinary people.

Farage must have been laughing the most, because Farage doesn't need to make speeches concentrating on Gareth or Elizabeth or the cleaner and the person he met walking their dog, because Farage is real and the public knows it and that is why he reaches out to the public.

Exactly. UKIP is out there meeting the e lector ate and holding public meetings every say. So we are supposed to believe that Ed bumped into. Plumber called Colin on Hampstead Heath and mentioned this meeting in his conference speech. Meanwhile Colin the plumber is interviewed in Newsnight saying that Labour HQ rang him to tell him that he was bonito get a mention in the speech. WTAF. does Ed write down the mobile number of everyone he meets and hand the phone numbers to Central Office? And they expect us go believe this crap?

There is an absolute beauty in one of the comments area in the DM.

It's about Milliband and the NHS. The poster has written 'You know nothing about the NHS Ed. You are an alien. You get your treatment on the Mothership'. I. M still PMSL over that comment.

He is as electable as Redwood. I e Not. But Redwood does talk a lot of sense

I know it seems like the party has a lot of momentum

I think that is a little optimistic. Their polling figures have been stuck in the low teens with the occasional blip up or down for months.

the media will no doubt engineer some smear against UKIP to try to paint them as racists

If UKIP want to stop being smeared as racists they need to stop sending out literature that appears to be designed to appeal to racists and do a better job of vetting candidates to weed out those holding racist views. John Bickley's leaflet talking about Labour's betrayal of "white working-class girls" in Rotherham and Rochdale is just the latest example. Yes, some of the victims were white working-class. Many were not. Some, possibly a majority, were of the same ethnicity as the assailants.

I still feel it's a bit transitory and their supporters will fade away quickly after the GE leaving only the hard core anti EU element to carry on

You may be right. Personally I think Farage is well aware that the party draws support disproportionately from the Conservatives and that increasing UKIP's vote simply makes it easier for Miliband to become PM at the next election. If his objective is an EU referendum this makes no sense. Cameron has promised an in/out referendum in 2017 whereas Miliband is dead set against it. He knows that UKIP help him rather than harm him so he has no reason to change his position. So if Farage wants an EU referendum as soon as possible he should be trying to help the Conservatives win the election. The fact he isn't suggests to me that he hopes the Conservatives will implode after losing the election so that UKIP can become the main party on the right.

Personally I don't see it happening. But I suspect whether or not UKIP fade away depends on whether the LibDems can re-establish themselves as the main recipient of the "none of the above" vote.

Yes Redwood is very good.

Yes, does Ed ask everyone he meets by chance for their name, address, telephone number, email address and ask to see their driving licence to confirm it? And does he write all their names down in a notebook for future reference?

And then does he forget to mention the deficit in his speech, but remembers to mention the word "together" 51 times. He must think we are all together not quite there.

'Yes, some of the victims were white working-class. Many were not. Some, possibly a majority, were of the same ethnicity as the assailants.'

Where did you read that about the Rochdale abuse scandal? I have never heard that.

Redwood - Oxbridge banker. At least he read history and not PPE ey?!

There is nothing wrong with a PPE with good sense, it's just a shame that there are so few of them on the elite benches.

Redwood has a razor sharp mind, razor sharp wit and the ability to apply Occam's Razor to Labour policy and tomfoolery.

Ah so not all PPEs are bad. You wouldn't have guessed that from previous posts.

Of course they aren't. What is bad is how the Establishment recruits from them to a disproportionate extent. They are just ordinary people who are then elevated by the Establishment, and who join the club which is in some way the modern-day equivalent of the Establishment old school tie. That sometimes means that they are bound by old school rules instead of fresh thinking that meets the public's needs.

Prescott was on the Daily Politics the other day and I have to say, he was magnificent - real Labour, old Labour, not old school tie. The system needs to give fresh voices like Prescott and others real influence rather than the usual Etonian, Fettes, PPE, Oxbridge old-school tie oligopoly.

Len McCluskey is very good. If he was Labour leader, Labour would be in danger of winning the election. He is real, not a puppet. He says the wars are wrong, he says we need to take some industries back into public ownership. He says the truth, not the old school line. He is real and says what the people think and want. But that is exactly why he could never be Labour leader, the Establishment prefers a PPE.

Bob Crowe was magnificent. If he had been an MP, then no one could have beaten him because he was nobody's puppet, he was real too.

Labour have some very good people and they ought to be able to win every election, but they don't because they are led by people who follow the old school tie philosophy.

Why on earth is relatively poor, ordinary, working-class Clacton, which suffers from the downturn and poor services, going to vote for UKIP in stunning numbers. It is because none of the other parties speak for them. Labour should be able to clean up, but they can't because they are so far removed from ordinary people and their concerns. Bob Crowe and Len McCluskey could clean up, but they don't get a chance.

Here is an interesting article on PPEs. It is not the PPEs fault, it is the system that elevates them and opens doors for them and of course then binds them. Privilege is perpetuated and the Establishment emerges as the perpetual winner. Real change can't occur and the people are ignored. That is why we have Clacton's and that is why the vote for Scottish independence ended up being so close.

'On their own, they aren't particularly remarkable. Taken together at York or Warwick, they still aren't anything very remarkable. But study philosophy, politics and economics (PPE) at Oxford University and you get power and influence thrown in with your degree certificate on graduation day.

At least that's the way it looks. Of the current cabinet, David Cameron, William Hague, Jeremy Hunt and Philip Hammond all read PPE: as did Ed Miliband, Ed Balls and Danny Alexander along with about another 30 MPs. Among many others at the BBC, Nick Robinson, Stephanie Flanders, Evan Davis and Newsnight editor Ian Katz read PPE. At least eight journalists at the Guardian read PPE, with similar numbers at the other broadsheets. And tabloids, for that matter. Toby Young read PPE. Even Chris Huhne read PPE.'

...

'"There were those who had chosen PPE precisely because it was a springboard to a career in the politics or the media," says a former student. "They had their whole lives mapped out from the moment they arrived at Oxford. They knew they were going to edit the student newspaper, be president of the union and what job they were going to end up in. They probably even knew whom they were going to marry. They seemed to have got just about everything else right."

"It's definitely something that is commented on and joked about," says a graduate from Wadham. "There's a moment in The West Wing, a flashback I think, when one character is handed a napkin with 'Bartlett for President' written on as they plan to make him run for office. Well, I'd be lying if I said there weren't more than a few drunken nights that ended with someone being handed a napkin with 'X for Prime Minister' written on. People are fully aware, and much of the student union is made up of PPE students."

...

And maybe it's just as much the social connections that are made that turn so many PPE graduates into masters of the universe: after all, many continue to orbit one another throughout their careers. "The thing is this," one graduate laughs, "PPE is such a big subject that no one can ever know everything, so we all have to bullshit like mad at times to cover up our ignorance. And we by and large get away with it. So we carry on bullshitting once we leave Oxford and most of us are still getting away with it."

www.theguardian.com/education/2013/sep/23/ppe-passport-power-degree-oxford

They tell us we are apathetic and are in their words "anti-politics". None of us are apathetic and we aren't anti-politics, we are anti them and their cosy consensus. They even said that some of the Yes voters in Scotland were "anti-politics", when in fact ordinary people in Scotland were so energised and passionate that 97% of them registered to vote.

Politics counts, politics is important and people are desperate for some real politicians, not puppets.

That is why Farage's Clacton meeting has been sold out. It is a shame I never knew about it or I would have been in the queue jostling for a ticket too.

"More than 700 people snap up tickets for "biggest public meeting in Clacton in living memory" with Ukip leader Nigel Farage"

"He [Carswell] said the meeting is a breakthrough for “people’s politics" and that all 700 tickets were snapped up within 24 hours.

Mr Carswell said he was bowled over by the enormous demand for tickets.

"Next week David Cameron is due to address the Tory party conference in Birmingham in front of a handpicked audience of wannabe MPs, lobbyists and PR men, out of reach of the local population,” he said.

"But in Clacton on Wednesday, Nigel Farage and I will be showing that there is an enormous appetite in this country for proper, accessible political debate.

"Our meeting will be a genuine chance for residents of Clacton to come and ask authentic questions to the leader of UKIP and their UKIP candidate for the upcoming election. It will be local people writing the script.

"The former Labour MP Charles Clarke has said the age of big public meetings is over. All we can say in response is that it must be the way the old parties are doing them.”

www.clactonandfrintongazette.co.uk/news/clacton_frinton_news/11488568.More_than_700_people_snap_up_tickets_for__biggest_public_meeting_in_Clacton_in_living_memory__with_Ukip_leader_Nigel_Farage/

Let's hope the people of Clacton do all of Essex proud and deliver a landslide for the people's party.

Where did you read that about the Rochdale abuse scandal? I have never heard that.

I don't know about Rochdale but take a look at the independent inquiry into Rotherham. That notes a number of reported cases involving girls who were not white working-class (or, indeed, white any other class). It also notes that Rotherham had a high level of forced marriage cases, many of the girls involved being young. These girls would have been from the same ethnic background as their assailants. The report also makes the point that we have almost certainly only identified a minority of the victims, that experience across the UK shows that those involved in child sex abuse tend to first abuse people close to them (who will generally be from the same ethnic background) and that victims from some ethnic backgrounds are known to be particularly reluctant at coming forwards to report abuse, coupled with the normal reluctant to report being abused by a close relative or friend of the family which affects children of all backgrounds. So we don't really know what proportion of the victims were from the same ethnic background as their attackers. We know a significant minority were. Experience elsewhere would suggest it is quite possible that a majority were but we cannot be sure. What we can be sure of is that representing this as purely white working-class girls being the victims is clearly wrong. We know that was not the case.

Prh

The Rochdale abuse issue has been going on for decades and recently the former Liberal MP Cyril Smith was named in Parliamnet by another MP as being a child abuser. There was a File on Four programme on Radio 4 last Sunday that investigated more recent claims of abuse and linked the abuse of one family's daughter to that suffered by her brother ina children's home in the authority. Another very distressing case.

File on Four should still be available on the BBC Radio iplayer

Claig .... what with Miliband still thinking he is in the socialist Oxbridge Student Debating Society rather than providing details for government and you keep going on about PPE's and a policy less UKIP - is there any danger of anyone talking about and offering solutions from 2015 with a £75 bil deficit economy?

No wonder people get turned off politics, as if political party's offered the people TRUTHFUL solutions rather than saying they are 'different', more voters who see through that shit, might engage.

Stop worrying about Miliband winning. He won't.

He is not serious.

"Ed Miliband 'doesn't read UK newspapers or watch British TV News'"

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ed-miliband-doesnt-read-uk-3623398

If you watch his interviews, you can often see him laughing things off like his speech from the top of his head where he forgot to mention the deficit and immigration - the top two issues that the public are concerned about according to polls.

His speech was rubbish and yet some of the PPEs are clever. How come? Is it all just a game?

The Tories will win the election, but they may need to have a coalition and UKIP and Farage may even end up holding the balance of power. Clacton is the start.

Watch the panic when the results are read out. Project Fear 2 will be started but wiser PPEs may realise that the only way to calm the public revolt is to do some kind of deal or make some kind of accommodation with the party of the people.

Miliband will be in parks talking to Gareths and will laugh in interviews, but the serious politics starts in Clacton with what political analysts call the People's Army.

I totally agree ISitmebut. And I don't think the electorate is really swayed by x more nurses, x more doctors bollocks any more because people don't believe that hype.

Had another good laugh at luchtime when the Labour spokeman for Health was asked where all these health professonals will come from? Stinned silence but after a lot of obsfuscation she thoight that 'they would just get back into the NHS'. How naive. The BBC political reporters are having a field day with this Labour Upper Fourth Form.

Ukip are actually stating how they will save money. They will cut down NHS administartion costs and reduce the management consultancy bill (which is billions). They will stop the 6% ?? overseas aid budget. They will refuse to burden industry with any more costly red tape.

You'll probably come back and tell me that Ukip will also lose income by abolishing inheritance tax etc - but you asked me about Ukips cost savings.

These politicians (of all parties) need to understand just how expensive it is to introduce a new tax or policy.
Take the Mansion Tax

You'd need to value all houses. So you need valuers and a register. The register will need to be computerised and maintained. It will need civil servants to draw up policies and implement the tax. it'll need local authorities to collect the tax - so more IT systems required and it'll probably have to link into the existing benefits systems.
And then there's the publicity costs and the What Ifs - what will you do when a little old lady is thrown out into the streets because she could live quite happily on on her late husband's widow's pension but now the Govt want 15,000 from her each and every year in Mansion Tax she can no longer afford to live there.

Makes having a bedroom tax look quite humane by comparision.

"is there any danger of anyone talking about and offering solutions from 2015 with a £75 bil deficit economy?"

UKIP have been talking about it. The biggest political meeting in Clacton in a lifetime has been sold out because the citizens of Clacton are keen to hear how it will be done.

The modernisers' ring-fenced foreign aid budget will be slashed - no more British taxpayer money going to Colombian farmers to combat their cows' flatulence which the modernisers say is "harming the planet", no more millions spent on the Ethiopian Spice Girls, no more waste.

Quangos will be slashed, luvvies will have to queue up at the employment exchange - no more expenses, no more handouts. There will be a cut in the proliferation of phoney charidees and tax-saving cons.

No more taxpayer subsidies to the aristocracy to erect windfarms on their large estates. No more green taxes that push up the price of fuel for pensioners and industry. No more green crap.

The metropolitan elite (and their rooftop wind turbines), the luvvies and the PPEs are in panic mode. They know the game is up. Clacton is their worst nightmare.

I take that as a honking great 'NO' then.

Here is Godfrey Bloom's analysis

"Why the People Want Ukip and the Luvvies Don't Get It

Those in the metropolitan élite bubble, who graze on sun-dried tomatoes, pasta and chardonnay are struggling with this. Why won't this beastly party of amateurs go away? It's now beyond a joke. Well, for a start, nearly 50% of the electorate have disengaged. The often repeated line on the doorstep is 'it doesn't make any difference who you vote for'. Of course this is true up to a point, it doesn't. Who can really spot the main policy differences between New Labour and Cameron's Conservative Party. There is no clear blue water and the electorate know it. But there is a new mood, to be understood by only those who are prepared to leave the bubble and talk to people in the pub, rugby club and cricket club. They are angry because they know they are not getting a fair shake. They pay rates, income tax, national insurance, a fortune for a tank of diesel, a pint of beer and packet of cigarettes. It is all tax, tax, tax. Yet no one seems to know where it goes.

£200billon to the NHS. Yet out of the 1.3million employees over 700,000 have no medical qualifications of any sort. The cancer treatment ratings are at the bottom of the industrialised world, there are not enough dialysis machines, A&E wings of hospitals are closing, police and defence budgets slashed. We all bounce over potholes in the road, who has not had to replace at least one tyre and sometimes wheels or suspension. We pay a fortune in airport tax yet queue for hours at Heathrow to get back into our own country! VAT at 20% is crippling manufacturing and retail.

The complaint is, what do we get for all this? Answer, bugger all.

Yet we seem to have money to burn. £1billon per month on foreign aid, £1billion to the EU, £1billon to charities, £4billion to Quangos. Everyone at senior level in the BBC seems to earn money that most of us can only dream about. Terrible stories emerge every week about the failure of social services but the senior executives at the town hall are all earning more than £100,000 per year. Cuts involve the poor little sod who digs the graves or sweeps the streets, on a pitiful low wage to start with.

There is 30% youth unemployment in the North of England, yet we maintain an open door immigration policy.

People are turning to Ukip because no one else seems to understand the frustration ordinary working folk are feeling."

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/godfrey-bloom/ukip-godfrey-bloom_b_3947498.html

It's over. The luvvies and the PPEs can't fool the people anymore. There is nothing they can do to stop what will happen in Clacton and elsewhere.

Now you're just being boorish Isitme but. Some of those policies were actually Tory policies. Dave promised a bonfire of the quangos. I think we have more quangos now than we had 5 years ago.

'But there is a new mood, to be understood by only those who are prepared to leave the bubble and talk to people in the pub, rugby club and cricket club.'

Why do you think the PPEs sent Miliband out to the park?

They hoped he could tell stories of some ordinary people he had met. But none of the luvvies will like what they hear, only UKIP is listening.

Claig ... re your "stop worrying about Miliband winning, he won't"

I read, and have mentioned several times, that Miliband just needs 31% of the vote to FORM the next government and based on the party faithful, constantly fed raw red meat on why incompetent socialist governments are better than better educated toff ones who create the sustainable economy they trash - what makes you believe those still supporting, nay clapping the prat, will NOT vote for Labour to 31%?

The lack of policy detail in Manchester has to lead outsiders to believe he thinks he can take Labour over the 31% post feeding with red meat and crunchy soundbites.