Conservative Carswell defects to UKIP

[Isitmebut]

Modernizer Carwell won the new Clacton seat in 2010 with a large majority, heavily influenced by Ukip deciding not to stand a candidate themselves – so he has found a natural home with those that have a totally anti EU stance, but seems to forget that Ukip without a parliamentary majority cannot change British law to bring us out.

Claig …… after all your rants about right wing ‘modernizers’, you now own another one – so time for you to ‘jump’ the other way? lol

P.S. His defection was hardly cold, but by 1.30pm Wikipedia had been changed to reflect his defection. Who do you think was in a hurry to reflect his move, Ukip or the Conservatives? lol

Yes, inheritance tax doesn't affect that many people, and the ones it does affect most are not necessarily the really wealthy people - they will have done proper estate planning and can avoid much of it.

Under the current regime, our DD would probably have to pay quite a lot but I am not in favour of abolition of inheritance tax. Frankly, other people will need more than she does - giving your children a good grounding and the ability to make their own way in the world is much more important. I don't think I'm at all unique in this view.

I think it's highly irresponsible. I ama big believer in inheritance tax (even though we will pay A LOT when we inherit). It's absolutely a gift to the rich as outside of the South East very few people have to pay any. A bit oh a joke that this is being hailed as a victory for the people. Labour anew mansion tax is more of a gift to the majority, whether you agree with the policy or not....

Errolthedragon - you're absolutely right that the very wealthy avoid it all
Together, just as they do when alive with other forms of taxation

Errol .... I totally agree with you that Inheritance tax is an issue that people can shield their family, a cats home, whatever from the worst of it via planning and that there are other middle class priorities e.g. all those families who through overtime etc are being dragged into the 40% tax band - due to 'fiscal drag', when chancellors don't raise thresholds in line with inflation etc..

But if the 'other people' spending the accumulation of a persons work and savings (already taxed numerous times) is an incompetent government spending/wasting money on apparatchiks earning £50k to £150k, sending THEIR children to fee paying schools, I have a problem with that.

Re a Conservative/Ukip coalition, well best someone in Tory high command send a hitman' around to my home if EVER think that is an alternative, as if anyone thinks Clegg has sometimes been disloyal to the coalition government, JUST IMAGINE how no-policy Farage will be to promote himself over the airwaves.

And one also has to ask, how many Ukip voters just HATE all government, mainly due to Ukip's propaganda, and never followed policies in their lives.

Seriously, if any Conservative coalition, I'd rather 'reward' the Lib Dems again for doing what was right in 2010, where both party's had to compromise some of their core beliefs to form a government to address the deficit etc - as the Labour Party who NOW 'say' they will cut it from 2015, opposed virtually every cut to the £157 bil deficit from 2010.

ff241 ... there is nothing wrong with tax planning, as often governments encourage that, to provide for themselves now and later in retirement so they can focus on those that can't - it is tax avoidance that is illegal.

As I wrote on the devolution thread, tax receipts should be treated like gold dust, but when it is used to fatten government and a political party's power base, how can those governments not expect people to take all measures to pay less tax - include work less hard, as in pre 1979 workers paying 32% as a a lower rate income tax all the way up to 90 odd% tax on investment income - its a principal thing, that often 'the people' know how better to spend their own money, than fat governments do.

rf241 .... re Mansion Tax, how many people in homes over £2 million will now look to sell and trade down, in size in the South East, or move further out and buy the same size?

Screwing around with market forces and people who have choices, never work that well, certainly when forming a spending budget on that screwing.

A reaction will be more people competing on the homes over £1 million, or if a cynic like me, even lower as once a socialist starts milking a cash-cow, it don't know when to stop.

Remember in 1997, when Stamp Tax on homes was a Flat 1%, well how many families are now paying 3-5% for a family home???

Osborne put up Stamp Duty and other 'stuff' for the larger homes, so IMO this is Labour overkill for 'fairness' headlines, as was the 50% income tax rate, after 12.5 years in government, that raised far less than Labour thought it would.

The mansion tax will be as popular as the Poll Tax when we see little old ladies who are property rich but cash poor being evicted from their family homes because they cannot afford the annual mansion tax. Tax and tax again, that's Labours solution to everything with no consideration whatsoever as to how you will identify these expensive houses and manage the tax collection.

And to compound it all Caroline Flint Labour has just suggested the mansion tax may only apply to England!

Inheritance tax and the mansion tax are policies of envy.

The Givt wastes huge amounts of money. Armies of at overa consultants at thousands of pounds a day are employed in every govt dept, often just to tell the permanent managers what they already know. Everytime I hear "more money for the NHS 8 roll my eyes in horror as it's not ore money it needs but better management, It's not about throwing money at things it should be about the outcomes that the money achieves and throwing billions at a problem e g ( NHS computer systems does not guarantee a good outcome)

Watching these duplicitous Labour supporters wriggling on the hook of the West Lothian question makes my stomach turn.

I think that UKIPs 'abolish inheritance tax' and labours 'mansion' tax' are both just highly visible sticking plasters which won't cure any real problems.

isit - inclined to agree with you re lib dems... they made a workable coalition which (while it has unquestionably made mistakes) has been dealing with the economy, even though they surely knew that it would make them unpopular with some of their traditional supporters. I've got a lot more respect for that than popularist sound-bite policies.

Errol ... UK history for at least 35 years, but probably also includes the pre 1979 last Labour government (Winter of Discontent), shows political parties who try and take away the spending/debt party punchbowl, always 'suffer' at the time, for the next election, the one after that, and.....lol.

The Coalition have made errors, as Thatcher did from 1979, but often there is no obvious answer to problems when the country is financially on its knees - they have to do the best they can.

Personally, I didn't give a formation of a left-right of centre coalition a hope, never mind a 5-year term, but I can't see what more they could have done in one 5-year parliament due to the enormity of problems faced, so history has to be kind to Mr Clegg, one day. Bless.

Clegg got his vote on PR and his 10k tax threshold granted by the Tories

what did the Libs grant Dave in return. They reneged on the boundary changes that the Tories wanted. Not trying to point score, I just can't think of any big concessions that Lib made to the Tories

WetAugust …. My view is based on what the Lib Dems did for the UK as a whole, not the Conservative Party - an objective that some power seeking politicians having ‘a purple patch’, seems to forget.

Granted the £10.5k starting tax rate was granted by a Conservative chancellor, but when has any recent Conservative chancellor NOT lowered taxes (as a direction of travel) when either it could be afforded, or needed to fiscally be done to help the out the economy.

You listen to PMQT, from 2010 Labour following the French big state economic model were mocking Osborne/the Coalition’s policies on rebalancing the economy by helping the businesses/cutting the fat State, telling them unemployment would RISE 1 million.

So what chance was there of a minority (short 20 seat) Conservative Party quickly implementing their plan, without the foundation of a Lib Dem coalition, where their MP’s could still vote against.

Every policy would have been watered down with French fizzy mineral water, the deficit (and spending waste) would have been much higher, the accumulating interest charges on the national debt larger than the annual £52 billion now, with few businesses and unemployed.

A minority Conservative government, could not have got all that done, and certainly not a chance of the long overdue boundary changes - so not to give the tree hugging sandal brigade that credit, is being mean. IMO.

wetaugust - the libdems made a huge concession, the one that really hurt them - tutorial fees. I don't understand the outrage over their broken pledge - a pledge made in their fantasy manifesto (clearly lib-dem power ain't going to happen) was just a statement of what they'd like to happen. In the real world of making a coalition work, flouncing over that principle would have been a disservice to the country. They were between a rock and a hard place and didn't take the popular option.

I have just heard Miliband bring Lib Dem tuition fees AGAIN in his big conference speech re trust in politicians.

Miliband forgets to say that Tuition Fees were brought in by Labour (with Blair’s unfunded target for 50% of school leavers to go to Uni), interestingly that WITHOUT Scottish MP votes, would NOT have got through, by I believe 5 votes.

Furthermore the Labour report to refinance Tuition Fees, if memory serves, was to come out AFTER the 2010 general election - like all the other 'brave' political decisions they should have made.

As usual all ‘class’ and other mud slinging from the party currently in Manchester who were so ‘in touch’ with the people they left people homeless, jobless and with national/personal debt coming out of their yazoo.

Now it’s apprenticeships, the half-wit still hasn’t realise that Labour has to learn to stop losing private sector jobs by treating them all as 19th century factory owners and CREATE jobs, BEFORE Labour has the right to mention them, never mind offer them.

The Daily Politics today was interesting. Andrew Neil was interviewing a Scottish Labour MP. Neil asked him outright why he had voted for increased tuition fees for English students while his own constituent Scots students paid none.

The MP just sat there stony faced until he came up with the point that UK politicians voted on Trans port for London even though that responsibly had been devolved to Boris.

Then we had Benn also dodging the English question issue. I would be interested to know what his father thought about the West Lothian question as Tony Benn was a ConstitutionList who believed in democratic representation, which was why he hated the EU.

as fir the NHS bring safe in Labour hands. That made me boak. Staffs happened on their watch as well as all the other filthy hospital and neglected patient scandals. Is that what they count as success!

Miliband is in denial on Labour’s record on the NHS, saddling it with so much debt and debt service charges then, that affect budgets now.

His too few billion££££ ‘to save the NHS’ won’t even cover the PFI cost of changing the toilet paper.

“Tony Blair has defended the spread of private finance initiatives under Labour as seven NHS trusts face administration as they struggle to repay large debts from PFI deals.”

www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/9356942/Blair-defends-PFI-as-NHS-trusts-face-bankruptcy.html

“Six other NHS trusts face joining South London Healthcare in "administration" as they have taken on projects viewed by ministers as "unsustainable", it has emerged.”

“South London Healthcare NHS Trust will be the first in the country to be put under the control of a special administrator tasked with securing its finances.”

“The schemes saw private firms building hospitals, leaving the NHS with an annual fee to pay over around 30 years.”

“The total value of the NHS buildings built by Labour under the scheme is £11.4bn. But the bill, which will also include fees for maintenance, cleaning and portering, will come to more than £70bn on current projections and will not be paid off until 2049”

“Some trusts are spending up to a fifth of their budget servicing the mortgages”.

“Across the public sector, taxpayers are committed to paying £229bn for hospitals, schools, roads and other projects with a capital value of £56bn.”

And as you say, similar to the 1,400 in Rotherham, they all stick together to hush stuff up.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2363808/Labours-NHS-denial-machine-Experts-verdict-ministers-covered-problems-failing-hospitals-thousands-died.html

It's been very interesting to watch the Labour conference. the supporters are complete clones all told what to say by the spin doctors. they even use the same phrases over and over again. There is no original thought.

Also noticed that many supporters are doing o through gritted teeth. The old guard are starting to rebel and want the party to go back to its roots in supporting the working man. There is quite an sir of bloom about the whole proceedings especially Shen you realise that Milliband will probably be the next PM.

Ed Balls speech was so bad that he was actually booed.

Andrew Neil asked the Shadow Pensions Minister what the current value of the State Pension was, but she didn't know . Very poor prep. She then went on yo compound her error by saying it depends on how much you've paid in.

I have a feeling that they would desperately like go ditch Ed or even both Eds, but know they are stuck with them.

' the supporters are complete clones all told what to say by the spin doctors. they even use the same phrases over and over again. There is no original thought.'

So nothing has changed.

Miliband's speech was poor. Lots of spin and guff about people he met called Gareth and Elizabeth and some women he met in the park, all just a bit of a lark.

Andrew Neil mentioned how Miliband didn't mention the deficit. All the Labour spinners have been working overtime in absolute panic mode, they probably didn't realise that the deficit was an important topic. Now the message is that Miliband forgot to mention the deficit and immigration in his speech with no notes. All the spinners have to keep a straight face as they parrot this line. across all media in a despearte attempt to shore up their defences.

I can't wait until Friday when a real party conference starts - UKIP is in Doncaster. Unmissable viewing. They will probably follow up with more earth shaking policies such as the abolition of inheritance tax. Can't wait, the spinners in Labour and the Tory party are biting their nails. They know that this will be the end of their game, politics will never be the same.

the media will no doubt engineer some smear against UKIP to try to paint them as racists / little Englanders / Anything to ensure their message doesn't get out.

They gained another councillor today defecting from the Tories in Great Yarmouth. Essex seems to be going UKIP in a big way.

Yes, you are right, they will use all their chums in the media to try and deflect the public from UKIP's policies.

Yes, Essex will go UKIP. There's also a by-election in the Manchester/Rochdale area where Labour are in power. Don't know how strong UKIP are up there.

I think that other by election majority is quite small around 5000?

UKIP may do the double on the night!

Yes, that will be great! How in earth will the spinners get out of that one?

Two simultaneous outbreaks of mass hysteria in different parts if the country?

They are going to have to get used to it, because it's just the start.

Claig

I know it seems like the party has a lot of momentum and I'm pretty sure they'll take the w by election seats and maybe Nige will win a GE seat, but I don't think that post election they will have much influence on the party in power. I still feel it's a bit transitory and their supporters will fade away quickly after the GE leaving only the hard core anti EU element to carry on.

They may not be able to have influence in the near future, but I think they are here to stay because the public has no affection for either the Tories or Labour, and neither party will be able to change and adapt as their elite teams of PPEs are from another planet and don't understand ordinary people.

As Richard Littlejohn says

"Over the next two weeks, the party conferences are being held in Manchester and Birmingham. They might as well be held on the Moon.

For a few days, the political class will relocate operations to hermetically sealed conference centres, where they will mix with exactly the same people they see all year round.

It has been said the Westminster ‘elite’ didn’t understand the electorate north of the border. No surprises there, then. They don’t even understand the electorate north of the North Circular Road."

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2765936/Forget-Barnett-What-need-Barnet-formula-says-LITTLEJOHN.html