Conservative Carswell defects to UKIP

[Isitmebut]

Modernizer Carwell won the new Clacton seat in 2010 with a large majority, heavily influenced by Ukip deciding not to stand a candidate themselves – so he has found a natural home with those that have a totally anti EU stance, but seems to forget that Ukip without a parliamentary majority cannot change British law to bring us out.

Claig …… after all your rants about right wing ‘modernizers’, you now own another one – so time for you to ‘jump’ the other way? lol

P.S. His defection was hardly cold, but by 1.30pm Wikipedia had been changed to reflect his defection. Who do you think was in a hurry to reflect his move, Ukip or the Conservatives? lol

WetAugust .. more bitching about other politicians, rather than tell us why a UKIP vote for another 2015 coalition, possibly an all socialist, EU singing and dancing Labour/LibDem, is in the best interests of the UK and it's constitution.

As the news gets better and better, as the success gets greater and greater, the people feel happier and happier and Farage's smile gets wider and wider.

We are witnessing a revolution in politics, we are on the cusp of real change. If the UKIP steamroller keeps on rocking and rolling, of Farage keeps on holding early morning conferences and posting letters to Scottish MPs about constitutional change, then the people of the whole country will unite in a nationwide conga, not just the citizens of Clacton-on-Sea in the county town of Essex, known to political cognoscienti as the Tories' worst nightmare.

"Nigel Farage’s Ukip is rising in popularity in the run-up to the party conference season and the Clacton by-election, an exclusive poll reveals today.

Ukip has jumped two percentage points in the past month to stand at 15??per cent, its equal-highest level, while the bigger parties have failed to make significant headway, Ipsos MORI found.

The monthly poll, published first in the Evening Standard, destroys David Cameron’s hopes that the anti-EU party would dwindle in the polls after its victory in the local and European elections in June.

In other findings that will widen the smile on Mr Farage’s face:

More than half, some 53 per cent, say Ukip is “highlighting important issues which other parties aren’t taking seriously enough”.

The proportion of people who think voting Ukip in a general election means “a wasted vote” has declined. The percentage who agree has fallen from 57 to 50 since May, and the percentage who disagree has risen from 33 to 41.

Mr Farage has by far the least toxic net satisfaction ratings out of the four biggest party leaders."

www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/poll-surge-puts-ukip-in-with-byelection-chance-9728907.html

Yes, the news is better and better today - Salmond gone. So now the quiet majority can focus on getting Farage and his shower to go away too (except in poor old Clacton till the next general election).

Salmond was/is a greaat politician. Channel 4 News just now described him as Britain's most charismatic leader. I don't think he is that because he spins, I think he is that because he believes in something.

Amazing scenes on Channel 4 News of how upset the young people in George Square in Glasgow were last night when the YES campaign lost. The level of disenchantment with Westminster is enormous. How on earth did it come to this?

And what the cognoscienti and metropolitan elite don't understand is that there is also huge disenchantment with Westminster in England. That is why UKIP is on the rise, and that is why Clacton will vote UKIP and cheer on charismatic Farage. How on earth did it come to this? What did the metropolitan elie do to let this happen?

What the heck has charisma got to do with being able to form and implement coherent policies? Salmond blithely said it'd all be ok, they'd keep the pound and stay in the EU, nae problemo, and stuck his head in the sand and ignored warnings that actually it just wouldn't be that simple. Hardly suprising that the canny people of Scotland didn't follow him into his uncharted abyss.

History is full of charismatic leaders. They weren't all Churchills.

There will be consitutional changes in the wake of this referendum - though the Labour party will be put in an uncomfortable position, I hope they can see beyond their party interests. The Westminster problem and the West Lothian problem do indeed need adressing - but by serious politicians. Farage may serve some useful purpose yet in uniting them for the common good. (one of the chants heard in scotland when he made an unwanted visit, from both sides was: 'yes or no... UKIP has to go')

It not what they did to let this happen Claig, it's more a question if what they didn't do. How they neglected everywhere out dude London. Hence Parris finding a bad small under his metropolitan nose when he ventured yo far gong Clacton.

I am struggling to remember what this Tory govt has actually gone for us apart from gay marriage and a few benefits reforms that have not even started to address our budget deficit.

I can see exactly why the Scots considered separation. The Tories are come tell up their own asses with nonsense like HS2 when it doesn't even run between the unions capital cities.

I watched a program about the building of Crossrail on the Beeb earlier this year. It was about the new tube link from Heathrow across London. Some of the engineering feats required to shoehorn that new C rosa rail far structure into the existing overcrowded capital city of London was quite amazing. But as I watched it I wondered why everything had to be crammed not London. What about the rest of the UK. people must fly into Heathrow with other cities such as Birmingham or Newcastle as their ultimate destinations. Why then do we need to make an already huge airport even bigger. Why not enlarge those in other areas of the country. There aren't even motorways post Exeter or Swansea. It's a crazy concentration of resource funds etc in one small area. No wonder the rest of the uk feels neglected.

Errol

Salmond may well have been able to keep the pound despite what the Tories et al said. After all Salmond had the trump card - the only nuclear submarine maintenance facility in the UK. It would take decades to build a replacement if it was even possible elsewhere in the UK. He just had to name his price as the UK effectively had no nuclear deterrent if it had no access to these facilities. Letting Scotland use the pound would have been a small price to pay.

The British 'nuclear deterrent' is probably an anachronism now. That sort of repugnant blackmail might possibly be considered by a leader reliant on 'charisma' rather than sound policy.

'What the heck has charisma got to do with being able to form and implement coherent policies?'

Because real charisma, against all the power of the media and the Establishment and the lackeys, only comes when someone speaks the truth and believes in what they say. And it is truthfulness that leads to trust and that leads to election victories and that is why the SNP beat Labour who have abandoned working people as they embrace the luvvies and their concerns instead of ordinary people's concerns. And that is also why UKIP will overturn a 12,000 Tory majority in one of the safest Tory seats in the country, because people have lost trust in them and they trust the newcomer, UKIP, more than them, and it is because the Tories like Labour are on the side of the luvvies and not on the side of ordinary people. Carswell finally understood it and said

"The problem is that many of those at the top of the Conservative Party are simply not on our side"

'one of the chants heard in scotland when he made an unwanted visit, from both sides was: 'yes or no... UKIP has to go'

Yes, that was in Scotland. But in England that won't happen, in Clacton you won't hear that because Clacton is the Tories' and Labour's worst nightmare.

'I am struggling to remember what this Tory govt has actually gone for us apart from gay marriage and a few benefits reforms that have not even started to address our budget deficit.

I can see exactly why the Scots considered separation. The Tories are come tell up their own asses with nonsense like HS2 when it doesn't even run between the unions capital cities.'

Absolutely. They have sold off our great Royal Mail and who knows what the TTIP trade deal will mean for our great NHS and our other services, as our rivers aren't dredged and more money is spent on bird sanctuaries than dredging the Somerset Levels. Are they listening? Do they care?

Call it what you will Errol it's real politik. Westminster had something he wanted and he had something they needed. that's not blackmail, that's trade. Of course he could never have come out and stated that during the referendum as he would be accused of blackmailing Westminister but it's clear that he knew he would get to use the pound.

Whether it's a deterrent or not, we do have nuclear weapons and their delivery mechanism needs access to its maintenance facilities if we are to retain those weapons in an operational state. No UK Prime Minister could afford to jeopardise this

Millions of peple in Scotland voted YES, not because they supported Alex Salmond and not because they supported the SNP. Lots of Labour voters voted YES against the advice of all the Labour bigwigs and the train of Labour MPs from London etc. They did it because they believed they could start the process of having their views listened to and represented. They had given up on Labour, and who can blame them when you look at their team?

The people of Clacton will vote UKIP, not because they agree with everything UKIP say, but because they believe that UKIP is the start of having their views listened to and represented. They have given up on the Tories, and they never even liked Labour, and can you blame them when you look at their teams? They think that UKIP is a people's party and that it will change as the people change and listen to what the people say.

Jim Murphy of Labour was on the BBC last night and all the pundits big him up as some great politician. Compared to Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon, he is nothing, a total joke and he said that he was against proportional representation.

Of course he is, they all are. Why would they want our votes to count? Why would they want to hear what we want?

UKIP will give us local referenda. You can bet your boots they will all be against that too, because it lets us have our say, it might lead to magnificent turnouts like in Scotland where ordinary people mobilised and bypassed the Establishment media and communicated via social media because they were desperate to have a say in how they are governed. They say we are apathetic. Not one of us is, but we have lost hope that anything can change with these spinners in charge.

Channel 4 News interviewed ordinary people in Newcastle and not one of them wanted the extra layer of politicians and mayors and commissioners and taxes that will come with devolution to the cities. That's not what any of us want. We want local referenda and proportioanl representation, we want to take the decisions out of the hands of the luvvies and put them in the hands of the people. But they won't give us that and then they call us apathetic.

Dominic Grieve on Newsnight saying he feels the entire electorate are disillusioned with a perceived political elite and current political parties

More and more Tories are starting to understand the problem. Shame Dave still doesn't get it.

Looking at this so-called vow. There is no way that level of constitutional change could take place in the timescales he described. He's either very confident or very thick with no idea at all of how difficult constitutional change is.

Bizarre politics T the moment. Like a Le Carre with all the twists and turns.

I'm not that keen on the current political elite but heaven help us if we replace them with the political mediocrity of UKIP.

'charismatic' leaders may fervently believe what they are saying, but that doesn't mean they are telling the truth, or that their policies are good. Some are mad or bad and certainly dangerous to know.

Dave has made yet another promise that he knew he could not keep.

So because Ed disagrees with Dave, Dave can't keep his promise? You are aware that Dave doesn't need Ed onside to enact changes this side of the GE? The timetable suggests they will be enacted after the GE but of course if the Conservatives win a majority at the GE Dave won't need Ed or Nick. But if lots of people vote UKIP Dave won't be able to keep his promise because Ed will be PM and there will be no EU referendum, no EV4EL, etc.

You say the government has not even started to address the budget deficit. This is not true. The net deficit has fallen by over 25%. It is true that it has not fallen as fast as the government initially projected and there is still some way to go to eliminate the deficit (and even longer to eliminate the debt) but to claim the deficit has not been addressed at all is simply untrue.

Of course no-one could have stopped an independent Scotland from using the pound but they would not have got a currency union. Yes it would have cost a bit to move submarine maintenance to south of the border (if that was necessary at all given Scotland's desire to join Nato) but the risks of a currency union, both economic and political, are just too high. It would not have happened.

Interesting times....there does seem to be a general feeling that constitutional change is now needed. It shouldn't be done in a rush (though some of the scottish devo part might be able to be achieved pre-election) in which case it will be very interesting to see what's in the party manifestos. The Labour party may be too constrained by its relative weakness in England to come up with a satisfactory solution for it - the Conservatives might be better able to do this. (the libdems sacrificed themselves for the coalition and UKIP is a potentially disruptive sideshow)

Please tell me. Why are the Tories and Labour deemed acceptable but UKIP is undesirable?

UKIP has been banging on about the West Lothian question for over a decade. Today is the first time I've ever heard Cameron mention it.

All political party's were once 'new' and untried . The current political parties don't have a Devine right to share power forever. New ideas emerge. UKIP (according to some bloke on Newsnight) is the English SNP demanding political reform.

Anyway it was all an illusion. Scotland would never have been permitted to leave the union. I can see that now. It all become clear when the three leaders did their collective head slap and rushed up north.

Divine. Blasted autocorrect is bonkers on this iPad.

Wet August .... page after page of anti established party UKIP propaganda, yet UKIP offers the people nothing but flip flop policies for their votes.

UKIP's lack of coherent policies PRETENDING to have answers e.g. for the UK to leave the EU, is not just undesirable in the good times, it is a national danger in the bad times - all for a few Westminster seats to show investors you have moved away from a heavy BNP supporter roots, to some political legitimacy.

If you want to be a Westminster political party, rather than an expensive to taxpayers MEP protest group, start to act like one and SHOW/STICK to core values from one manifesto to the next.

How dare you accuse me of having BNP roots. Do you get pleasure in smearing everyone you don't agree with with the same disgusting lies?

It's because if people like you that I will never bore Tory again.

You have no respect whatsoever for anyone who doesn't slot neatly into your controlling ways.

If you want to be a Westminster political party, rather than an expensive to taxpayers MEP protest group, start to act like one and SHOW/STICK to core values from one manifesto to the next.

I usually keep out of these threads because I'm not as clued-up as the rest of you and would just show my ignorance, but this made me . I thought that the reason so many people have lost faith and trust in the main parties is precisely because they never stick to what they promise! I should think a few u-turns on policy would almost be a requirement to get into Westminster.

WetAugust .... easy with the pathetic gasted-flabber of fake hurt, I was talking about Ukip/investors, so unless "you" as an entity are UKip or all the investors, the smearing is all yours to me - as you have no answer to Conservative record in government FACTS, with the party you promote you can't even put together an UK election manifesto that lasts much past it's first birthday.

And re the BNP…whose membership fell at nearly the same rate as Ukip's rose a few years back.

www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/02/ukip-party-bigots-lets-look-evidence

“Farage boasted on The Andrew Marr Show(20 January 2013) that “Ukip is the only UK party to explicitly ban BNP members from joining”. What party, other than a party whose policies are attractive to such organisations, would need to do that?

*Christopher Monckton, their Scotland Leader and Head of Policy Unit invited the now-defunct British Freedom Party – an amalgamation of mostly breakaway BNP members led by a former Ukip candidate until January 2013 – to join Ukip: “I would very much like them to come back and join us and we stand together.”

"Ukip’s excuse for this lapse? Monckton had been away on a tour of the US and was not up to speed with current policy. More recently, however, Farage refused to vote to oppose moves for the European Union to fund the BNP."

"The founder of the party, Alan Sked, says it has become "extraordinarily right-wing" and is now devoted to "creating a fuss, via Islam and immigrants”.

Pixel .... would you like to be specific about any of the main partys policies bearing in mind a Coalition will always have to trim down both/all party's manifestos (especially if one is on the left of centre and the other on the right - and finally, if you are saying Ukip can be trusted, please tell me how you think this pan holing of EVERY policy and hiding it, is "different" to the others?

"UKIP leader Nigel Farage has disowned the party's entire (2010) general election manifesto - which he helped launch - branding it "drivel”.
news.sky.com/story/1200525/nigel-farage-disowns-ukip-manifesto-as-drivel

Ukip even wiped their 2010 manifesto off their official website, hoping off the face of this earth.

“UKIP spokesman Michael Heaver confirmed that the party’s 2010 election manifesto had been removed (from the official website). While the party now opposes the planned high-speed north-south rail line, the 2010 document advocated building three new routes. “We’re in the process of updating everything,” Heaver said by telephone. “We’re going through a policy review”

Headline news on Sky and the Express. UKIP to abolish inheritance tax.

that idea is going down very well on T wittier and would probably be acceptable to the Tories too should the parties be in coalition

This is real change. Balls is just tinkering about with his freeze on family allowance and increase in the mind wage by 2020.

Beeb have also announced they will be covering the UKIP conference on Friday and Saturday

Starting to enjoy the run up to GE 2015

So they are proposing to reduce government income by £3.4bn per year. You are aware there is still a big deficit and any incoming government is going to have to continue to deal with it? So what taxes are they going to put up to pay for this tax cut? What government spending are they going to cut?

By the way, this is definitely a tax cut for the few. Of 265,000+ estates notified to HMRC each year only around 15,000 end up having to pay any tax. I'm sure UKIP's millionaire funders will be happy with this policy (which, by the way, was in their 2010 manifesto, so it isn't exactly new).

There is no realistic chance of a Tory/UKIP coalition after the next election. That would require UKIP to hold a significant number of seats. Whilst that is possible on their current level of support the problem they have is that their support is too evenly spread, so they are likely to end up as also rans in most constituencies. Unless the UKIP vote goes up very substantially from the level in current opinion polls the most likely outcome is that UKIP voters will ensure Ed Milliband becomes prime minister.