Conservative Carswell defects to UKIP

[Isitmebut]

Modernizer Carwell won the new Clacton seat in 2010 with a large majority, heavily influenced by Ukip deciding not to stand a candidate themselves – so he has found a natural home with those that have a totally anti EU stance, but seems to forget that Ukip without a parliamentary majority cannot change British law to bring us out.

Claig …… after all your rants about right wing ‘modernizers’, you now own another one – so time for you to ‘jump’ the other way? lol

P.S. His defection was hardly cold, but by 1.30pm Wikipedia had been changed to reflect his defection. Who do you think was in a hurry to reflect his move, Ukip or the Conservatives? lol

It's so predictable it will be vote UKIP and all the major manufacturers and organisations will leave the UK. it'll be note UKIP. And the pound will plummet and interests rates and prices will rise. It'll be vote UKIP and there will be famine pestilence and a plague of frogs just before the sky falls in. If that fails Dave will give us all a teary speech. You heard it here first folks

Have you ever been to Clacton, Claig?

Or Jaywick... given the tragic history of flooding, the people who live there may be a bit more inclined to understand the realities of climate change than you give them credit for.

WetAugust ….. I asked a simple question re Clacton, what is Carswell’s UKIP local U.S.P. that is so ‘different’ to his Conservative one, (which usually means Unique Selling Point) but from the drivel I got back from Claig and you at the end of the last page - it’s closer to Ukip Sucker Punch. Lol

Ukip has no direct affect on all the things you mention, especially in Clacton, are you back on that whacky backy for recreational or ‘medicinal’ purposes?

Dave’s water works does seem to be on a bit of a hair trigger at the thought of the Scots screwing up the UK, as does Farage’s sweat glands, which again chose to ‘glow’ like a pig during his Scottish speech/vist – was he ‘venting’ alcohol, or is it his blood pressure?

No one can cry over a pro EU, economically incompetent Labour government in 2015 due to UKIP getting 11-15% of the votes in 2015, as long as they have a policy, national or local, that either they can deliver, or is worthy of the name ‘policy’.

Re Clacton, I both asked the question and wrote what I thought he was saying and have yet to get a CLEAR answer; what is Carswell, trading on his Conservative seat, constituency relationships and policies built up over the past 4-years, got to offer Clacton under Ukip?

Isitmebut

I'm thinking beyond Clacton, which is just a minor sideshow. I don't really care who funds UKIP as long as they do so legally. I don't even care that Odd Millipede will be running the country because the country is already fucked or as they say in these parts ' proper fucked' so that at least that limits Labours ability to screw it up even more.

'Have you ever been to Clacton, Claig?'

Absolutely. I used to go there with bucket and spade when I was knee high, and have I been there since? Aye.

Jaywick, I have not been to.

'the people who live there may be a bit more inclined to understand the realities of climate change than you give them credit for'

This is Essex, the Tories' worst nightmare, full of hardworking people, full of common sense. The Tories can't get up early enough in the morning to pull the old climate change scam down here. The people want flood defences, dredging and sea defences, just like the people in the Somerset Downs. They don't want tax subsidies to the landed Tory gentry and aristocracy to build more windfarms and more rooftop wind turbines.

Matthew Parris came down to have a look around. He saw hardworking people full of common sense and realised that the game was up for the Tories, he said they should turn their back on Clacton. The old climate scare won't work down here, of that there is no fear.

Climate Fear, Project Fear, none of it will work down here. It will be a landslide and the Tories won't even come near.

Perhaps you need to go back with your spade, good for burying your head in the sand, Claig. I'm sure that the people of Jaywick would like flood defences but it's just too low-lying to save for ever.

I read Matthew Parris's piece in the Times, if that's what you're referring to though you seem to have interpreted it quite differently so maybe not... I really don't think he believes the 'game is up for the tories' in a broader context. Sure, Clacton probably will stick to its old MP regardless of what the other parties do there - but not because it's representative of the rest of the country having any overwhelming enthusiasm for UKIP.

I grew up there... its the sort of place you leave and go back to for funerals.

'Perhaps you need to go back with your spade, good for burying your head in the sand'

I will go back to celebrate with the townsfolk when they are doing the conga on Clacton Pier to celebrate the victory of UKIP over the Tories.

I am referring to the Matthew Parris Times article.

'I really don't think he believes the 'game is up for the tories' in a broader context. Sure, Clacton probably will stick to its old MP regardless'

I am not referring to a broader context, I am referring to Clacton which he visited. I don't think there is any "probably" about it. Clacton may not be representative of the rest of the country, but I think the views of its people are representative of the rest of Essex and are the Tories' worst nightmare.

Essex is the county with the highest percentage support for UKIP in the entire country, as evidenced in the Euro elections. I think Clacton is just part of that.

'I grew up there... its the sort of place you leave and go back to for funerals.'

I think that is a sad thing to say. It's about roots, about ordinary people. The people who live there are good people - honest, hardworking and full of common sense - the Tories' worst nightmare. They are not London luvvies, not progressive movers and shakers, just ordinary people who are the real backbone of the country.

I agree with Tim Stanley in the Daily Telegraph

"And Matthew’s column grinds my gears on a personal level because I, too am “ordinary”. I know the kind of people he’s describing; there are a lot of them in my family. And although I may have grown up into something that could perhaps be described as “exotic”, I’ve retained a deep love of the ordinary. I love seaside towns like Clacton: the piers, the fish’n’chips, the crappy shows (more impersonators of the Bee Gees than there were Bee Gees), the fag ash, the “family tattoo emporiums”, the loud families, the tired old gramps falling asleep on the bench, beer in plastic cups and merry-go-rounds that electrically hum Black Lace classics. It might not be pretty by 5 star London standards – but it’s Britain. Those people who Matthew dismisses built this country. They have survived world wars, recessions, depressions and 16 Eurovision humiliations in a row. They are indomitable – and no Westminster bureaucrats or clever-clogs writers will ever change them. I love them. I love them because I have to as a Christian and I want to as a fellow Briton. We are family. And you don’t turn your back on family.

Matthew seems to imagine that he’s handing out sage advice to David Cameron about how to build a Tory majority, but he’s dead wrong. On the contrary, columns like this suggest to people from my background what they’ve always suspected that Tories are laughing at them . By and large that isn’t true, but Matthew has come to represent a segment of liberal opinion that defines itself by a perceived superiority to everyone else. And if David Cameron follows that strategy at the next election, he’ll be left with just one segment of the population enthusiastically backing him: Matthew Parris."

blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100285407/dear-matthew-parris-if-the-tories-abandon-the-working-class-to-ukip-they-will-deserve-to-lose-2015/

They are good, ordinary people who have been ignored, taken for granted and looked down on by the London and Westminster elite who think they are better than ordinary people. But they will get a real awakening when the people deliver a landslide for UKIP and shake the entire foundation of their smug complacency and sense of superiority. The people are waking up, they are going to shake it up, the Tories won't be able to make it up.

Carswell finally saw the light, but all of Essex has known this for years

"many of those at the top of the Conservative Party are simply not on our side"

But Essex doesn't like Labour, because Labour are even worse than the Tories. They are not on our side either.

The reason Essex voted Conservative was to keep Labour out, not because they actually liked Tories like Matthew Parris.

But now there is a real alternative - a people's party - and Essex will vote them in. UKIP are going to win.

Claig …. The mystery of why “Carswell’s light” is leading him up the UKIP’s policy lite Clacton garden path, when compared with a party he joined that cannot form their own policies, never mind govern, beats the crap out of me. So keep quoting a Carswell Ukip soundbite, without qualification, means nothing outside Claig World.

"UKIP leader Nigel Farage has disowned the party's entire (2010) general election manifesto - which he helped launch - branding it "drivel”.
news.sky.com/story/1200525/nigel-farage-disowns-ukip-manifesto-as-drivel

As to any ‘alternate peoples party’ playing on the fears of people during difficult financial times - and blindly leading them up the garden path of communism, fascism and an ideology ALSO known as national socialism - how did that work out for all those ‘people’ in Russia, Italy and pre WWII Germany?????

Re Clacton 2010 General Election, here were the approximate results, with Labour having totally screwed up, so can be expected to poll higher 4-years later and BENEFIT FROM A SPLIT CONSERVATIVE/VOTE.
Conservatives 21,000
Labour 11,000
Lib Dem 6,000
Ukip – a whoosy no show.

As happened in the 2010 General Election as a whole, where thanks to Ukip’s pretence on what it could do regarding the EU, it put the UK at great risk by ensuring the Conservatives, had to form a coalition with the pro EU Lib Dems to govern with a majority – which thankfully worked better than most expected.

”General Election 2010: Ukip challenge 'cost Tories a Commons majority”

“The UK Independence Party's small but significant showing at the polls may have cost David Cameron a majority in the Commons, voting figures suggest.”

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/ukip/7693877/General-Election-2010-Ukip-challenge-cost-Tories-a-Commons-majority.html

“Analysis of results shows that in at least 21 key marginal seats, Ukip’s share of the vote proved enough to allow Labour or the Lib Dems to see off strong Tory challenges.”

I think we can learn a lot from the Scottish debate. People in Scotland are very dissatisfied with the current political system. It's not about Lab v C on any more, they want something different.m You can feel that they have totally lost faith in the current system.

It will be interesting to see how widespread that feeling is, as I am sure it does not stop at the border with England.

WetAugust ..... what we can learn from the Scottish debate is that when two left of centre political party's keep telling 'the people' that even when they receive via the Barnett Formula 10% more money, per person, than the rest of the UK, that they can STILL deliver ever more sweeties than the 'austere' Conservatives who are out to cut the NHS when they were the only party protecting NHS spending in 2010 - a lot of misinformation goes a long way.

How ironic having fought two world wars together, Scotland to get away from Conservative 'captain sensible' approach to debt/spending, would rather be told by Germany the same - as the ECB and Germany are currently telling socialist France and Italy, by adopting similar reforms the Conservatives brought in during the 1980's and 1990's.

Show me a 'satisfied' electorate after any recession, never mind the worst for 100-years with a £157 annual overspend to be cut back that neither Ukip or any other party could 'magic away.

As I said earlier, during previous times of economic hardship, communism, fascism and Germany's pre WWII national socialism reared it's ugly head - were the people left alive 'better off' straight away, or when order returned????

For Ukip to say they are 'DIFFERENT', they need to provide details how they are ANY better at delivering the BASICS of an NHS, jobs, etc than the established party's - and generally show a vision of a better standard of living for an aspirational society. So 'SHOW US THE MONEY', instead of just keep saying that a policy less group of political numptys pissing it up down the pub, are positively 'different'.

Independence is a leap into the unknown but what surprises me is that so many are so utterly disillusioned and without hope that Westminster can improve their lives that they are prepared to take that leap into the unknown. Almost a reverse of Blair's Things Can Only Get Better to Things Couldn't Get Any Worse.

This institutional and political scare mongering we've seen over the past week appears to have really tiled some NO voters to the extent that hey have changed to YES. As one said last night, the banks et al have kept quiet for the entire campaign until the Yes vote broke ground and then they decided to unleash the portents of doom and gloom. So utterly predictable.

I think they'll say NO and In don't even hunk it will be close but I am surprised and quite shocked at the level of discontent up there.

WetAugust ….. the problem is with politicians seeking POWER for personal gain, be it in pre war Italy, Germany, or anywhere to this day, is that they pretend to be ‘different’, they pretend to offer a ‘better alternative’ BY BOMBARDING the public with NEGATIVITY on what they have now – as proved by nearly every Ukip post on this thread – clearly UNABLE to provide a POSITIVE for voting Ukip.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/01/ukip-british-political-compass-authoritarian-right
“Rather, as I've explained before, Ukip flagrantly pilfers the most unpopular policies from both Labour and the Conservatives and frames them in a negative manner, making its manifesto a "bucket list" for the annoyed and offering easy, uncosted solutions. Scared of immigrants? Vote Ukip. Insecure about the financial crisis? Vote Ukip. Hate the smoking ban, energy companies, HS2, Brussels, travellers, burqas, tax, Boris, debt, wind farms, bankers, quangos, foreign aid, crime, Abu Qatada, tuition fees, lazy people, Muslims, foreigners, the hunting ban? Vote Ukip.

”The result of that scattered approach, however, may be that Ukip has somehow stumbled upon virgin territory that perfectly fits their nationalist identity; the vote of people naturally leaning towards the authoritarian right.”

In Scotland, with a lower unemployment than the UK average, they do far better with £10,100 of government spending per head than the England’s £8,500, and they have been told that oil that provided £5 billion in revenue to the UK Exchequer last year will help pay for a 5* NHS and ‘social justice’ – yet that is just 3% of Scotland’s annual income and Salmond has said Scotland’s defence will cost HALF that oil income – so one has to ask what the SNP is actually offering.
news.sky.com/story/1336911/the-barnett-formula-explained

The City international banks research departments were kicked into action as a ‘YES’ became a real possibility, as there will be significant changes to the UK, and internationally investors with exposure to UK stocks, bonds, interest rates, direct company investments, will demand qualified answers.

The Scottish ‘YES’ politicians for too long got away without telling their voters the KEY FACTS, but now those facts are being produced, politicians sensing power, call those facts “scaremongering” and “negativity” – as they don’t have answers the electorate would like - and those are soundbites that stick.

Ukip and the SNP have sooooo much in common.

LOL. that list of scattered items was in fact Tory policy until a decade or so ago. The Tories then ditched those policies but a lot of their former members held on to them!

Isitmebut

The solution to this is quite clear. If Ca,Enron wants to win the next election he needs to give the potential UKIP voters want they want be that grammar schools, increased inheritance tax, fox hunting.......... Whatever.

If the Tories don't want people who subscribe to your list of scattered policies they cannot complain if those same people don't vote Tory. I don't go to Currys to buy a washing machine and come home with a dishwasher instead. I'm not going to lay out my money on something that will not do the job I require of it. I am not going to vote Tory because they don't fulfilled my needs

The party has to change - not the voters.

WetAugust … I saw Farage’s photo call today, currently “fulfilling your needs”, pathetically posting letters to Scottish MP’s telling them not to vote. Idiot.

I guess from above you are not getting the point of that right wing ‘oppose everything for votes’ Guardian article link, and as casting stones on what YOU think Tory voters want – especially due to the success of the joined-up-policy thinking since 2010..

Lets remember how UKIP built their voter base and as a chameleon ‘changes’ on the outside, but not the inside using your 1993 founders words; Alan Sked, who left UKIP in 1997, said that “Ukip has become a Frankenstein’s monster” and "extraordinarily right-wing" and is now devoted to "creating a fuss, via Islam and immigrants”.

So who is a U-kipper trying to pretend he is trying to sell the voters ‘washing machines’ when they need ‘dish washers' to lecture me on policies???

Within UKIP’s ‘oppose’ list above, there is the High Speed 2 train line.

As we know the UKIP 2010 General Election manifesto was wholly wiped off your website, but below is the BBCs summary – including Grammar Schools your Treasurer Mr Wheeler insists on and THREE NEW ELECTRIFIED TRAIN LINES.
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8617187.stm

So based on Ukip/Farage’s lack of policies/substance of their own, we can only guess why some voters, like those in Italy and Germany before the 2nd World War, vote for Ukip or similar groups. Not too different to far right wing parties of the past looking to get votes for being ‘different’.

“Islamic State and Rotherham abuse ‘fuelling far right backlash’.”
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29204170

“Membership to far-right groups, he adds, is on the rise. He claims that since last year, at least five new groups have formed, often having branched off from existing groups to follow a stronger ideology and comprising over 100 members.”

“He says one group member told him he would like to implement death camps in the UK”.

"When I asked who he would like to put in the death camps, he just listed everyone that he didn't see as white British," he added”

UKIP's Mr Carswell doesn't want more homes built to help the shortage, will Ukip oppose East Anglia etc railway upgrades as well?

'will Ukip oppose East Anglia etc railway upgrades as well?'

Of course they won't, they are for the people

No 'people' along the HS2 route to link better the northern cities with the south complaining about it, Farage saw as 'low hanging' votes?

Ukip and their policy unit would no doubt feels at home in Clacton, and a beach full of 'flip flops'.

so addressing the West Lothian question is funny is it? I don't think it's funny of at all fair to continue to allow Scottish MPs to vote on exclusive English matters. I see that as a democratic. deficit that the English are being forced to endure, I don't like democratic deficits, which is why I am anti-EU

Listening yo Cameron this morning I thought Yeeesss! He I'd finally going yo address the West Lothian question. Now I realise thAt it was just a sop as Labour will not voluntarily give up their undue influence of their Scottish MPs. so Scotland will get even more devolution Nd the West Lothian question remains but more severe. They are all now arguing over what exactly this "vow" was that they made the Scots,

shafted again by Dave

Cameron's policy is as fair as his granting of a Scottish Referendum and a promise of an EU one.

So hopefully the Lib Dem's that 'kin Ukip voters saddled Cameron with, will vote with him to force through what can be done, prior to 2015.

Labour with such a huge English electoral boundary advantage, keeping the West Lothian Scottish MP votes in England, and free to screw English democracy further, will be harder to get rid of, than cockroaches in body armour - so the last thing this country needs are wasted votes on UKIP wannabees for yet another election.

Meanwhile, Farage poses at a letter box, or was that just his gob. Marvellous.

shafted again by Dave

So Ed disagrees with Dave and that means Dave's shafted you? Really?

Yes, shafted by Dave because Dave does have power and Dave has made yet another promise that he knew he could not keep.

how anyone can support Labour amazes me. Just look at the procession of has been they rolled out Brown, Prescott, Darling complete with Alaister Campbell. failures at Westminster now about to repeat their failures up north. They just needed Blair to complete the farce but of course he's off feathering his own nest in true Labour spirit. Bloody hypocrites