I'm astonished that so many people are in favour of...

[emkana]

... smacking

Kitty - My Mum was (and is) very manipulative as well and mentally abuses my siblings and I in many, many ways even to this day.

The little smacks were fine though - straightforward, honest and logical - in fact one of the better of her parenting methods . Its all the head f*ck stuff that is much more damaging IMHO!

We should start a support club for daughters of potty mothers!

Fat fox, it is only at the ripe old age that I am that I am just beginning to understand and 'repair' the the damage she has done.
You are absolutely right in saying that the physical attacks on you and the other poor people on here are abuse, pure and simple. I too can understand their abhorrance of physical punishment. It is my goal never to let my children feel about themselves the way my mother made me feel. I suppose that is why to me, the occasional controlled and light smack is nothing compared to verbal and emotional torture myself and other have received.
I am SO sorry that you had to suffer the way you did. Abuse to children in any form is so comletely incomprehensible to me.
I see my mother at least once a weeek and she adores my children, I am however very alert to her ways and find it hard to feel close to her or indeed like and respect her at the moment.
She would never know BTW, as always she remains blissfully ignorant in her own little world, feeling totally in the right in whatever she does.

i'm so sorry with all of your stories - thank you for sharing these.

have just read this whole thread

i know my mother smacked me as a child,but i cant remember any specific incidents.i can only remember the times my mother shouted and screamed at me and scared the living daylights out of me(she told me a few months ago that she used to suffer terrible pmt,i wish she'd bloody told me that when i was 8!).all children and parents are different,and what works for some wont work for others.

all i can say is the type of parents mentioned in earlier posts,like the one who told her toddler to shut the f*k up etc(there are plenty of those sort where i live),are probably not likely come on to MN to discuss parenting issues because they probably dont give a s*t about their kids,and those are the sorts of children who are going to grow into ASBO cases.

Hi, i've not posted on any threads like this before, me and my sister were both smacked as children. We now both have a son each of our own, hers 2.8yrs and mine 1yr. Obviously they are too young to be smacked but neither of us intends to smack them whatever age they are.

I can't remember the reasons behind being smacked when I was younger, however I can remember Mum giving us warnings - we were given three warnings and if we carried on doing what we were doing we'd be given a smack (ALWAYS on the bum nowhere else EVER). Nine times out of ten we'd stop before it came to the smack.

It was the shouting that really upset us both - my dad didn't smack but he did shout - and very loudly. The look on his face petrified us and we were scared of him, even when he wasn't angry. We used to run mum ragged which was why she resorted to smacking i think.

I think that there are ways I can discipline my son (at the right age - but what's that?) without having to resort to smacking, and i'll try every one of them first before I even think about giving him a smack/tap/slap - they're all the bloody same no matter what anyone says!

When I was a child I felt that I had it easy because children I knew got the belt or a wooden spoon. And teachers were still whacking their pupils. (I'm 39) These were educated families as mine is and I think times have changed ALOT.

Diva my mum also had terrible pmt which I understand now and she had a cruel father. I have forgiven her because she didn't understand her power and she has struggled with herself and I know I was and am loved. And even parents who were horrendous to their children I mean bloody hell your dad fatfoxwell there's usually an explanation though not an excuse of course.

When my first son was 1 my sister came to live with me with her dh and dd age 1.5. She would get a smack even at that age. She was very jealous of her cousin and bit him every chance she got. my poor baby had terrible bruises and my niece would get a smack from my sister. It wasn't working. We consulted a book. Our new plan was to remove her physically from biting but make no reference or give any attention to it. No more smacking and it worked! That was 15 years ago and my niece is a delightful girl (but she has had a few slapped faces from my sister over the years.)
My friends and family make fun of me as a complete softie. I still just totally ignore the bad behaviour and it generally works. Any time I've smacked have been useless. But there is scribble all over my walls, sheets and settee, little vaseline hand prints decorate the place. The house is a mess. So as you can tell I haven't mastered the whole control and discipline concept! But my kids are all really sweet, affectionate and confident so I sort of don't care about the chaos. They are young and one day I will have a perfect house

Wish we had a law against smacking children, like Denmark does - and I wish it were inforced. I find it terrible that anyone can raise their hand against a child. It makes me furious. The weakest most defenceless people on our planet.

If you were to walk up to a disabled adult, an old lady, a foreigner and smack them, it would rightly have consequences but that parents can believe they have the right to smack a child because that child BELONGS to them is beyond belief. Your child DOES NOT belong to you and a child should not have fewer rights than an adult. Slave-owners thought the same, slaves were theirs to educate and punish as they saw fit but no-one in Europe would agree with that belief in this day and age.

shedevil, I agree with you completely because :
1- I have been smacked as a child and TBH can remeber vaguely about the stings etc... only by reading this thread. I have a lovely relation with my parents and really do not have any 'bad' memories about being smacked as such
2- I had PND with ds1, I have been 'violent' towards him as I have been smacking him out of anger. I didn't know I had PND, was dealing with it on my own and in a very bad way. However, from the reaction of my son, I KNOW that the worst thing I have done is shouting at him totally out of myself. I saw fear in his eyes and I promised me that I would never ever do that again.
Now, PND has gone, I made a point to build a nice relationship with ds1 (Through positive parenting, praise etc...). But TBH, even now I think that it is better if I smack my son if nothingelse seem to work that letting everything spiraling down out of control and me shouting at him in that way. I know that was abuse and I want to avoid that at all cost. If a smack some time to time after eveyrthing else has failed is the way to avoid it then I'll do it. I just feel it is the best that I can give him at the moment. Can someone blame me for that?

SSSandy, Denemark has banned smacking but there are still a lot of european contries that considered smacking as socially acceptable and would indeed think that by not smacking you are a leniant parentand not educating your child correctly.
Every country has a different idea of what is accpetable or not.

hi kittywits, only just managed to get back on to reply to your scenario.

um ok, well I think at four that the child should have quite a good level of understanding here so I think the first time she drew on the walls (was it to be deliberately mischeivious or was it to draw mummy a nice picture btw?) I would work very hard to explain why she mustn't draw on the walls and only on paper but only in a slightly cross tone if it was done mischeiviously.
I would then reinforce this immediatly by sitting her down to draw on paper and go over and over the same thing untill I know that she has definately learnt that drawing on anything that isn't meant to be drawn on is not acceptable. - a 4 year old will enjoy the conversation with mummy and delight in repeating it back to their mum (or probably anyone!) at that age they love information and can really take absorb it.
Lets say they then go on to draw on the sheets straight after..
Then I would, in a serious and cross tone, go through the same information as before, re-inforcing the reasons as before, and then get the child involved in any stain removing process so that they can see the consequences. At the same time telling her that we will have to forefit something else enjoyable (take a favorite toy away for a day maybe) decided for her.

If it was a deliberate act of 'naughtiness' each time then I would wonder why she was needing attention from me, because that is all it would be.

I'm sure there will be lots of people who think that this is long-winded, but it does'nt have to be at all.

In that scenario I can't see how smacking would teach the child much?

what do you think?

hi kittywits, only just managed to get back on to reply to your scenario.

um ok, well I think at four that the child should have quite a good level of understanding here so I think the first time she drew on the walls (was it to be deliberately mischeivious or was it to draw mummy a nice picture btw?) I would work very hard to explain why she mustn't draw on the walls and only on paper but only in a slightly cross tone if it was done mischeiviously.
I would then reinforce this immediatly by sitting her down to draw on paper and go over and over the same thing untill I know that she has definately learnt that drawing on anything that isn't meant to be drawn on is not acceptable. - a 4 year old will enjoy the conversation with mummy and delight in repeating it back to their mum (or probably anyone!) at that age they love information and can really take absorb it.
Lets say they then go on to draw on the sheets straight after..
Then I would, in a serious and cross tone, go through the same information as before, re-inforcing the reasons as before, and then get the child involved in any stain removing process so that they can see the consequences. At the same time telling her that we will have to forefit something else enjoyable (take a favorite toy away for a day maybe) decided for her.

If it was a deliberate act of 'naughtiness' each time then I would wonder why she was needing attention from me, because that is all it would be.

I'm sure there will be lots of people who think that this is long-winded, but it does'nt have to be at all.

In that scenario I can't see how smacking would teach the child much?

what do you think?

sorry for two posts it was all the computers fault.

Is there anyboddyelse here who is having enough courage to recognize that they think they have been abusive towards their child (verbally or physically) and say what they think about the subject?

babournet, Big respect to you for being able to share your difficult experience.
I just wondered having read your post about a smack being the last resort - are you saying that the smack is to stop you fom loosing your temper and shouting?
If it is to with how you feel at the end of an argument/tantrum etc then surely that is still unfair on the child?

Please don't feel that I am judgeing you at all I feel this is a really worthwile thread if people can be as honest as you.

As ever the situation is always much more complicated then it appears at first. Smacking is there to stop me getting out of control but to ensure that the message is received and everything esclating to a point of non return .
Something along the lines of kittywits. Your child is doing something wrong, you explain the first time, tell him of the second, send him in time out etc.. and he still does it.
kittywits obvioulsy thinks that in this case, a smack could be a way to finally stop the behaviour. I think that by that point, the behaviour HAS to stop, that I have done my best and if smacking is the way to obtain it then I will. because I know that otherwise there will be a point where I will loose my temper and I DO NOT want to do ever again because it is much worse to ds1 that a slap on this bottom.
I actually love this kind of thread because it helped me think about what I am doing and what is the best thing that I can do for my children. I respect people who have never and never will smack their child but I think that separating a tap on the bottom from the shouting and screaming is IMHO unhepfull because in my experience, and the one of other posters, this is the shouting, the anger of the face of the parent that is the worst for the chid.
We all have at one point lost our tempet - go on let's be honest we are all human after all - some more than others and I really do think that putting down, sreaming, completely loosing your temper, insulting etc...is more damaging to the child.
Some psoters have made the comment that they never heard an adult complaining of not having being smacked as child but to have heard adults complaining to have been smacked. Well, I have heard adults saying that being smacked hasn't been damaging to them because they were in a loving environment but I have never heard an adult saying that being insulted or being in fear of their mum wasn't a problem or damaging to them

I'd rather work on the first aspect in an environment that allows me to do so and then working on the non smacking side of things.

I can be VERY annoyed and tired and fed up and unahppy but I wouldn't ever lose my temper with a child, shout at or insult a child and I wouldn't ever smack a child either. Just isn't me. So smacking is not better than what I would ordinarily do. None of that is in my spectrum so I can't honestly comment on it, to me it's all very alien TBH, like another world.

Good on you for thinking about what you do and how it may or may not affect your child bab, I'm not trying to dig in the knife, I just honestly don't get it.

SSSandy, good on you.
You have all my respect for it and TBH I also quite envy you.
My post is there more for all those people who might actually find it more challenging than you and who are loosing their temper.
I don't advocate to do so nor than you should or shouldn't smack just that sometimes, 'not that good' is better than worse. And that a lot of the comments that I have read on this thread must have made some mums who are trying their best very unconfortable.

Better add that no way am I a perfect mum bab (you suspected as much, right?), there are so many things I'm crap at / uninterested in, days when I would rather hide behind a book than spend time with my child so I didn't want to give the impression I think I'm a great mum. I know my shortcomings but this whole smacking issue is totally weird to me.

SSSandy, we are all trying to do what seem to be the best of our families with what we are given.
I have to add that I too think that smacking a child is not the best thing to do. That I understand how saying that smacking is acceptable is an open door which can lead to abuse.
However, I also have learn the hard way that being a perfect mum with the perfect children is not possible. I also have learn that there is a scale on how good or bad a way to discipline a child is and that smacking is nearer to the neutral point that shouting, insulting or for that matter hitting (as hitting with an object, on the face, very hard etc..).
I just found very generalized comments about smacking unhelpfull because we are all different, in different situations and I can understand that for someone, smacking can be a better solution than the other ones practically available to that person.

babounette - I already admitted further down the line that I have smacked my children in anger - not often and I've always been sorry afterwards and apologised to my children. I agree with you that the rage you feel and the shouting is as bad as the actual hitting. I think if I analyse it that I've had depression on and off since DS#2 was born and it's only since then that I got so angry. With just the 2 it was all so easy - I mean that 100% - I was as near as dammit the perfect mother - always involved with my children, always gentle and patient, never got really angry, I really hated the idea of smacking a child - but no#3 was a baby too far for both DH and I and we struggle. I really sympathise with you. All you or I can do is try our hardest to do better. I am - and have been fine for a long time now. Just got to deal with my DH shouting npw.... All this judgemental stuff is really hard to swallow when you aren't happy about what is happening but feel powerless to change.

I have a 12 yr old who regularly engraves on the furniture
He is not naughty in actual fact he is absent minded and doodles - with a compass.
He also takes apart pens and leaves bits everywhere.
He drives me demented with his bloody disorganisation
He 3 yr old can play with playdo and keep things neat, ds 12 sticks it everywhere.
Not once have I ever contemplated smacking him
But then again never once have I contemplated having expensive furniture...

God, Piffle, your son sounds SO like me My ds2 is like that too, he is a complete pickle. If I put him in a clean white room in clean white clothes he would come out covered in grime. I don't know how he does it. But it's part of his charm

In fact a few months ago we watched a some camcorder footage from 2002 when DS#1 was 5 and DD was 3 - I spoke to them so gently and spent my whole time smiling and laughing. Now I sound like a demented witch most of the time! It made me cry TBH.

Thankyoupoppet, thanks for sharing your ideas.
I do take time to consider if persistent bad behaviour is a reflection of any particular issues going on with any of my children at a particular time and if I think it is a try hard to adress the problems.
More often than not though I haven't got the time or energy to analyse why any of my children are playing up. if they know that something is wrong and is has been explained and they continue to do it then they will get a smack. this is very rare though, usually that bad behaviour stops because I say it must.

I believe that children should do what their parents tell them.

My views on this are probably considered old fashioned compared with the modern day trend to analyse and reason with your children, almost blaming any bad behgaviour they have on ourselves. they is far too much analysis of pretty much everything nowadays IMO.

Children are children and adults are in charge.
I expect to be obeyed without question.

As you might have guessed the senario gave you has happened to me. It happened repeatedly. I too did alot of talking to the young child at first. But as it continued to happen I got angrier and in the end she was smacked and it has never happened again. If I had made her try and clean the sheets with me she would have thought that was great to have such alot of mummy time and the behaviour would have continued .
As it was the sheets were completely ruined, which didn't add to my feelings as you can imagine!!
With 5 young children I have not got the time or energy to patiently explain things to them all the time. We have to run a tight shop and they have to tow the line, it's a simple as that.
I
Know there are disadvantages of having such a large family, I cannot always spend the time I want indiviually with each child and they make me tired and less patient than I would like to be. I am hard on myself and am always looking for ways to improve my perenting skills, but I am also trying my best.