I'm astonished that so many people are in favour of...

[emkana]

... smacking

I was a twat at school and can't tell you how many times I was caned. Smacked too. I'm 38 btw. It did me no good whatsoever as I got it at home anyway? I wish I knew the answer to kids who are out of control but I don't think physical abuse will do it? Think we need a total change in society but can't see it happening. Diet plays a big part in behavioural problems too and a lot of kids eat crap.

Also Ulysees, your discipline methods work for you and your children, with your personalities and your household dynamics. I am glad you have found sucessful methods that work for you.
It doesn't follow that these will work for everybody. Families and personalities are so different. I think that parenting progs have been responsible for encouraging a blanket,
It is important to respect that what works for some doesn't work for others.
Until you live with another family and see and understand their lives you cannot pass a fair judgment on their parenting/ disciplie techniques.

(Ulysees - cranial ost is great - used it on both of mine!)

I totally agree with you that we need a change in socitiy's attitude to authority. Once upon a time the local park keeper held sway , now ( if he exists) he'd get beaten up.

Ulysees - poor you getting caned that's awful.

agree with you KW about authority. Respect is shamefully lacking!!

Yessss - diet does play a big part. That's a big prob IMO

Don't see the point in smacking - I teach my ds not to hit others (he is a toddler). He copies what I do/he sees. If I smack. then he will think its ok to smack. Therefore makes no sense to do so.

I am perfectly able to discipline him in other ways. I also don't like shouting/demeaning the child or making them scared in other ways.

I find putting myself in 'time out' for 2 minutes often makes things easier to sort out

And btw I have a beautifully behaved (nearly) 2 yr old who is also extremely headstrong and independant.

I really think that smacking (however light a tap) is unneccesary and confusing for a child.

Meant to add though don't think a light tap is evil just fail to see why people use it.

kittywits I am sticking by my opinion and not being drawn into an argument. I know a lot of families and have a great many friends in RL from different backgrounds. I know smacking doesn't work so no one will convince me otherwise.
Anyone who wants to smack so be it. I'm not telling anyone how to parent am I? Please feel free to cut and paste any comment I've made saying they should do as I do? I say it's lazy yes but I'm guilty of lazy parenting at times. I've been known to bribe I've even given ds2, when he was 3,starburst to chew whilst going round asda as it was the only way I could get any shopping done. Horrified the anti-sweet brigade but it worked. Plus others copied
It would be wonderful if someone could give us a manual to show us how to be perfect parents and it would work 100% for all of us. Then we'd be living in total bliss but it isn't going to happen.

'i know smacking doesn't work and no-one will convince me otherwise'

Ulysees - i would have agreed with you until i faced the situation i faced - it worked - definately - and i'm glad it did. I think what kittywits is trying to say is situations and families are all different.

Starburst - mmmm - yummy. I might try that when i'm shopping to help me cope

everyone's entitled to their own opinion. I don't know many parenting manuals that condone or suggest it though? I'm sure there will be some out there though?
Anyway am leaving this thread as I'm not here to try to change anyone's mind as pro smackers are that and won't change because of anything I say. It's just important to me that's why I posted. No point really.
bye all xx

Only just mamanged to get back on here as had very busy but fun weekend with ds.

I am still very interested in this debate but have to say that KIttywits, I found your response quite arrogant, judgements and rude. So many YOU's banded about can make one feel quite 'got at'.

There agin looking at parenting styles I like the advise from Dr Christopher Green - avoid making YOU statments, like You are bad/naughty for x

Yes you probably could pick apart any parenting method .. however I have to agree with a whole host of posters on here that I know see reason or logical arguement for the use of force to make a point. Bullies do that in the playground. As adults we should set an example that phyiscal force doesnt mean right.

I guess now I am going to get labelled as personalising against Kitty for this post, I am not I just disagree with many of her points here and find how she puts her points as rude, aggressive, arrogant and condescending to say the least.

I am a mum trying to do her best by her ds too, I use the life experience I have gained and value support and advice for how to do things better. Nope we cant all get it right but we should also consider alternatives and try them. What worries me is the reliuctance of smackers to give up smacking for a trail period even to see if they can try alterantive parenting techniques. Just almost feels like a bit of a power thing.

I am not suggesting they try time out but to read some books and see if there is any other possiblities that crop up that they arent opposed to iykwim.

Only just mamanged to get back on here as had very busy but fun weekend with ds.

I am still very interested in this debate but have to say that KIttywits, I found your response quite arrogant, judgements and rude. So many YOU's banded about can make one feel quite 'got at'.

There agin looking at parenting styles I like the advise from Dr Christopher Green - avoid making YOU statments, like You are bad/naughty for x

Yes you probably could pick apart any parenting method .. however I have to agree with a whole host of posters on here that I know see reason or logical arguement for the use of force to make a point. Bullies do that in the playground. As adults we should set an example that phyiscal force doesnt mean right.

I guess now I am going to get labelled as personalising against Kitty for this post, I am not I just disagree with many of her points here and find how she puts her points as rude, aggressive, arrogant and condescending to say the least.

I am a mum trying to do her best by her ds too, I use the life experience I have gained and value support and advice for how to do things better. Nope we cant all get it right but we should also consider alternatives and try them. What worries me is the reliuctance of smackers to give up smacking for a trail period even to see if they can try alterantive parenting techniques. Just almost feels like a bit of a power thing.

I am not suggesting they try time out but to read some books and see if there is any other possiblities that crop up that they arent opposed to iykwim.

Sorry you think that Awen, it was not my intention to be any of the things you describe . I was merely trying to point out that there is little point in having a go at smacking when there are other forms of parenting that could be damaging as well and that we all do these things.
In the smacking debates I have seen/been part of, the anti smackers can get very unpleasent, accusing smackers of being abusive,damaging their children etc. etc. I find that very hypocritical personally because those same people wiil also (unknowongly) be doing damaging things to their children, just because that is the nature of parenting. So I find the whole 'damaging' argument a somewhat pointless one.
Anyway, apologies again X

Hitting someone does not make them respect you

Noddy, I don't hit my children to gain their respect. I do so when they are being extremely disobedient, rude or unpleasant. I have found that my general parenting methods gain me love and respects.

.....its interesting how the people who accuse us of being "lazy" etc for occasionally smacking our children are the same people who resort to verbal abuse when they can't win an arguement isn't it?

Only cos we can't punch you, FF

ff - was that referring to me? Where is the verbal abuse. Verbal abuse is not disagreeing on a reasoned basis.

Verbal abuse is name calling, shouting, done to deliberately intimidate and cause hurt

"I just don't understand why it is seen as ok for someone a lot bigger to physically reprimand someone smaller "

But it's seen as OK for someone a lot bigger to do a lot of things to a child that that child may or may not like. Hair washing, giving medicine, giving them brocolli to eat, taking them to school when they don't want to. These things are seen as OK because when push comes to shove, adults know better about certain things and are obliged to ensure that their children learn, grow and become full members of society. If you beleive that mild physical punishment has a place in the best possible upbringing of your child then do you not have a duty to use it?

And as for whether smacking does long-term damage to a child - who knows? There are no children who grow up unmarked by their upbringing, for better or worse.

I think the best argument against it (and the least emotive) is that it doesn't work (nor do other 'punishments' long term). It also teaches that you can get what you want by physically hurting others. That is why we have always said that we won't smack. The fact that on occasions I have is, in my eyes a shameful failure, due to shortage of imagination, and impatience in the face of some of the most bloody-minded small humans on the face of the planet!!!

personally I think smacking is a very effective punnishment, as are many others, but only when used in moderation. If any method is used too much it loses its effectivness.
For those of you that never smack could you share your disciplining methods?

good post joelallie - i'm withyou 100%

although on the occasion i smacked my ds i didn't feel shame. it had the desired effect and helped me to control a dangerous situation.