Part 6: Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[AndHarry]

Sorry, lost the end of the thread there!

Thread 5

I don't understand the logic of Sainsbury's removing kosher food. That's not what the boycotters wanted is it? I thought they wanted rid of israeli goods and specifically those goods from occupied territories and the west bank.

I was on the way out but caught Michael ...? discussing the bombing and he did make sensible points. Vanessa is usually very good. Will listen at some point

Yes somewheresafe I don't get that either. I ddon't see how on earth they came to that decision, they could quite rightly be accused of anti-Semitism and I'll be contacting them to object and to point out that they missed the point.

Had a quick look, seems it was the Sainsburys in Holburn, despite one of the protesters trying to tell them they had it wrong!

The Sainsbury's decision was ridiculous and wrong.

yes, plenty of sources of kosher food other than from israel. wonder what numpty managed to equate boycotting israeli produce with boycotting kosher foods

mind you i went for a job interview once for an equality and diversity role with particular responsibilities for multi-faith considerations and they served us a platter of sandwiches with pork, dairy and allsorts muddled together on one plate. gave us candidates a giggle and some assurance that the role really was needed.

and prawns! it really was the bingo card plate of wrongness

I've emailed Sainsbury's and complained too. It's ridiculous. And anti semitic.

it really is likely to be some numpty who just doesn't know what kosher means and assumes it means israeli - honestly there are tons of people, some in very high positions, without the slightest knowledge of diversity issues such as religion and culture. i've had to write staff training and been amazed how low i have to set the starting bar for sessions.

(and that was with lecturers and curriculum leaders rather than supermarket managers)

It was Tescos in Holburn, i think some of the papers got it mixed up with Sainsburys? Of course it was wrong, sounds as though staff panicked rather than a thought out decision.

Of course so wrong and is absolutely not what Boycotting is about.

on a selfish note it really pisses me off because when times get lean things like D&E jobs get cut instantly as 'luxuries' on the budget but they are so needed in everything from education to business to hospitality. i miss my old job and the work i did raising awareness and networking among diverse communities and running projects. tescos in holburn if you're watching let me come in and do some staff training - you need it!

Ack, Im wrong it was Sainsburys, apologies.

ah well anyone who has twatface shame the poor jamie for their advertising face is bound to have dubious intelligence levels.

Oh dear. An apparent ban on amnesty Intl and human right watch staff investigating events in Gaza. www.haaretz.com/mobile/.premier-1.611015

I was in Sainsbury's today and asked where the grapefruit were from as there was no indication of COO. The very helpful assistant ran off to investigate and reported that someone "must have lost" the information. He then proceded to remove the produce very apologetically saying he couldn't sell it without the information. I'm going to have to go back later and see if they just put it out again a couple of hours later. Training here is obviously a bit more rigorous than at the outlet in holborn.

hmm maybe or maybe they conveniently lose the stickers when produce is from israel. presume it isn't sale or return.

Hmm, i know that,y local tesco stopped stocking 'world foods' meaning kosher and halal foods but that was a while back - way before the bombing. I thought the reason was the uproar about animal welfare.

Has sainsbury taken kosher off as a result of the bombing?if so, they definitely need your training session honeybadger!

Sainsbury's removing the kosher products was ridiculous and ignorant, but hopefully it was an isolated incident at one store that won't happen again after the publicity it has received. I agree that it appears that diversity training is sadly lacking.

QnBoudi I can't read your Ha'aretz link as it's behind a paywall. Sometimes I can get the links to work if I access them via Twitter.

I listened to some of Vanessa's show but it is extremely long so I will have to try and listen to the rest tomorrow. She had quite a range of people phoning in representing a range of opinions. Many callers noted that there are a wide range of opinions within the Jewish community (one of the callers was from Jews for Justice for Palestinians; another was a British-born Israeli who described himself as a centrist and argued the pro-Israel case). Mira Bar-Hillel is of the opinion that anti-Semitism in the UK has been inflated to deflect attention from Gaza.

Another caller said he condemned anti-Semitism but described himself as anti-Zionist. However, I think there is some confusion about this term - I am quite confused myself as there seem to be many different types of Zionism. I would support either a two-state or one-state solution in Israel and Palestine but I'm not sure if the latter counts as Zionism. Assuming that Zionism refers the belief that there should be a Jewish homeland, then it is possible to be a Zionist and yet also oppose many of Israel's policies and actions.

Yes, Zionism in the loosest sense means support for a Jewish homeland. It has become a bit of a dirty word, but it doesn't mean agreement with the actions of the Israeli government. A two state solution which returns the pre-1967 borders, and returns the illegal settlements to the Palestinians, is in keeping with Zionism. I don't think Zionism was a good idea to start with, but the majority of both Israelis and Palestinians do not want a one state solution.

The ceasefire has been extended by 24 hours. I sincerely hope some progress is being made.

Here's another link to the refusal to allow entry to Gaza for human rights observers: ibtimes.co.UK/gaza-strip-amnesty-human-rights-watch-barred-entering-gaza-strip-1461631.

So sad to see the racism that this situation is generating. The posts at the end of this local piece include some grossly ignorant and offensive comments. http:www.Oldham-chronicle.co.UK/news-features/8/news-headlines/87229/tesco-boycott-demo-over-gaza . and then there's desecration of Muslim graves in an Oldham cemetery - do you think we've been exposed to some freaky aggression inducing chemical in a toxic airborne event or something? www.Manchestereveningnews.co.UK/news/greater-manchester-news/community-condemns-vandal-attack-7633023

Reminds me of that one liner 'the more people I meet, the more I like my dog'.

Majestic, you say the majority of Israelis and Palestinians don't want a single state solution - pls can you point to any sources/stats for that?

Yes, hope the talks are getting somewhere.

I sometimes feel sadness and sometimes rage at the whole situation in Gaza. If South Africa can eradicate apartheid, then why can't Israel?

What has caused the brain washing of the masses to such a level that they feel the Palestinians are not even human?

Are they always taught from school age not to regard Palestinians as human? But then you have the left wing who do want peace with the Palestinians. How come the brain washing didnt work on them? What was done differently?

On the subject of the ICC, it looks like the West is putting pressure on the ICC to jot go ahead with the war crimes investigation. That includes UK and France. We like to talk about justice yet we do not like to provide justice if it means our interests will be affected in some way. It makes me despair. Surely such injustice is what creates a 'terrorist'?

Going back to the 'we are all Palestinians' thing, I 'get' it (I think) but I don't think I'd use it myself - my main concern being that it could sound like we're saying we're suffering as much as them, when the majority of people on the protests will (thankfully) never have faced anything similar. I think I'd prefer something like 'we could all be Palestinians' to get the point across, plus it might be easier for people hearing it for the first time to understand what's meant by it without needing an explanation?