Part 6: Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[AndHarry]

Sorry, lost the end of the thread there!

Thread 5

Btw well said Qnboudi

I'd just like to say it's not true 'no one comes near this thread.' I have read them all, I just prefer to lurk as Honey usually says exactly what I think and I don't need to announce I'm boycotting and writing emails as I'm not good with debate.

But not true that no one comes near this thread.

We do get Israel supporters in plenty, but rather than support Israel by explaining why the theft of homes and land, and the slaughter and maiming of thousands, is decent and humane behaviour, they prefer to abuse and criticise Palestinians, Arabs and Muslims.

thank you special agent we had lots of drop ins on an earlier thread after someone said similar to just said there (no one is on this thread) - they all delurked to say similar to specialagent - that they were reading, grateful for the thread, following all the links and supporting the palestinian cause but didn't post on the thread.

have we reached this point in the circle again? where when all else fails we get to the 'you're a bunch of loonies and no one is listening?'. if there were so many informed, rational counter opinions (to being anti ethnic cleansing, anti the killing of civilians by military forces, pro human rights and international law) surely they could be relied upon instead of the same circular derailing and abuse techniques?

oh yes and all those new mn'ers who joined just to spout propaganda quoted from the IDF website managed to find us in this topic funnily enough.

More info on how the pro Israeli lobby organise. On university campuses in the states. Right down to the use of body language and tone of voice to antagonise and provoke responses in order to discredit those who with whom they disagree (or I could say 'are waging a war'). Just as well those tactics can't be used on this thread. Don't fancy being loomed over and leered at for speaking out as well as fending off all the flak. Still, I'm very conscious that I have to be careful to be whiter than white, as one of the pro Palestinian supporters points out. There are so many malicious attempts to penalise on account of the wrong sympathies. Legal action and wrongful dismissals all over the show.
electronic intifada.net/content/zionists-try-close-down-palestine-solidarity-group-philadelphia-university/
13839

Israel. Racist? It welcomes people from all over the world. Many Arabs live and work in Israel.

If Israel wanted to get rid of Palestinians, why do they save their lives in Israeli hospitals?

The reason few people join in this thread is because of the nonsense spouted by ignorant people who believe everything they read in the (biased) papers.

Go and get yourself properly informed (by living in Israel/Gaza).

Hamas is a terrorist organisation. How can you possibly defend it?

www.forbes.com/sites/richardbehar/2014/08/21/the-media-intifada-bad-math-ugly-truths-about-new-york-times-in-israel-hamas-war/

PS are you campaigning for all the kids killed in Syria, and elsewhere in the world. Or are you just anti-Israel?!

This is my only post. You can't argue with people trying to defend terrorists.

"Israel. Racist? It welcomes people from all over the world"

Oh, naïve, you really are.

Would you consider a country racist if it refused to accept Jews, even if they lived just across the border?

Is a country racist if it operates in reverse, and accepts Jews from all over the world, but not non-Jews from just across the border?

Would you consider a country racist if it had a policy of dispossessing Jews, stealing their homes and land simply because they were Jewish, and allowing non-Jews to take them simply because they were non-Jewish?

Thanks, naive, for the comedy moment. I was kind of harrumphing as I read the article in a 'if it wasn't actually about lives, it'd be bloody funny' kind of way. But then I took a look at one of the sources cited and am now just hopping mad. If anyone wants an example of outrageous distortion and spin, get this!

Peter stefanovic was used as an example of a western reporter who saw the 'horrors' of Hama's but whose 'truthful' tweeting was ignored by the biased media. In fact, stefanovic sent several tweets over the days immediately before and after the tweet cited. Whilst there was 1 reference to hamas rockets, the rest referred to israeli actions. These quotes from a few, are - unlike the single quote picked out in that nonsence of an article - totally reflective of the excessive and disproportionate Israeli 'operation':
'Barrage of bombs' (Israeli)
'Horrific reports from eastern edges of Gaza, which was pounded by heavy artillery. Bodies on streets. Families fleeing on foot.'. (Israeli fire/slaughter)
'Ambulances screaming past'
'1st Qassam suicide bombing in years (next to an Israeli tank)' (how desperate do you have to be to blow yourself up - and note, not in a kindergarten/playground/school!)
'Constant bombing' (Israeli)
'Many dead, incl. journalist and paramedic' (killed by Israelis)
'Hospital overflowing with victims' (victims of IDF actions)
'Bodies piling up (in morgue)' (Israel's indiscriminate bombing)
'Scenes of absolute devastation' (disproportionate response)
'Bodies all over' (inhufuckingmane)
'Things just escalated drastically. Ten large missiles fired from naval ships at targets next to our hotel. Another deadly night ahead' (but don't forget about Hama's????)
'Scenes of absolute death and chaos' (I'm so mad now)
'Another bloodbath in Gaza today' (don't they deserve it, the dirty ayrabs???)

And so it goes on. Plus the interesting entry: 'foreign journalists in Gaza have received an email from GPOIsrael warning us that hamas militants may use us as human shields'. For that we might just as well read "You WILL believe ... You WILL believe ... You WILL ...".

Bloody criminal selective use of information to justify an unsupportable opinion. Hideous to revisit the horrors of the summer, but a reminder not to forget it and let the whitewash succeed. Boycott all the way.

And the world is playing 'action man' while Israel gives the lie - again - to who breaks ceasefires.

electronicintifada.net/content/israel-forces-gaza-fishermen-undress-attack-violating-ceasefire-deal/13888

I know Miko Peled's talk has been linked to several times on this thread, but I just thought I'd recommend his book, The General's Son. I enjoyed it more than his talk, as it goes into much more detail and provides more context. He describes his upbringing in Jerusalem, the influence of his father, who warned early on of the dangers of the occupation and campaigned for peace, and, after the death of his niece in a suicide bombing in 1997, how he overcame many of his fears and began to question many of his beliefs by meeting Palestinians both in the US and later in the West Bank and getting involved in non-violent resistance against the occupation. He writes a lot about people he has met through the Families' Circle, which brings together bereaved Palestinian and Israel families, and about Israel's brutal treatment of Palestinians.

There is also a Guardian article about Rami Elhanan, Peled's brother-in-law and his friendship with and Bassam Aramin, whose daughter was killed by Israeli soldiers here and a film has been made about them.

I have not been on here for a while. Actually find the fact that this thread is at the top of 'in the news' when poor souls are being beheaded and filmed and the world appears to be on the brink of ww3 due to radical Islamist extremists, particularly odd.

Wake up to the world and stop spouting nonsense about the only democracy in the Middle East, who are simply fighting the same terror organisations as we are now faced with in the west.

hasn't the 'war on terror' rhetoric (be afraid, be afraid, the big bad muslims are coming to get you - don't mind us corroding your rights and privacy and freedoms over here just focus on those bogeymen over there) been exhausted already?

and surely the sheer racism of this rhetoric is abundantly clear by now?

I feel more frightened of radical Islam than Judaism in GB anyday. There are no hate mongering Jews as far as I am aware that consider me an infidel.

Alemci, feel free to start a thread of your own. This thread is about the oppression suffered by Palestinians.

Karenins bill clinton, obama, sarkozy, john kerry don't think very highly of the leader of the only democracy in the middle east do they. In fact they view him as an obstacle to peace don't they. His actions have shown the threat that he poses to world peace.

As for waking up to the world, the world is seeing Israel atrocities and apartheid in action and therefore more will boycott. If anything, it is high time that Israel woke up and started treating Palestinians as humans.

Boycott Israel.

I was responding to Honey, why be so rude?

I don't think Israel thinks very highly of Obama or Kerry either.

So the lies and bias against Israel continue unabated, despite more truthful reports of the conflict coming to light. You just carry on with your anti Israeli rhetoric then. I grew tired of trying to be a chink of light for truth on this thread long since.

Christian fundamentalism is very scary too.

Yruapita - "This thread is about the oppression suffered by Palestinians"

The thread is titled 'Israeli-Palestinian conflict' - not indicating that is in fact about the oppression suffered by Palestinians. From that it could be assumed that it is a discussion about the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. However, from the handful of regular posters who dominate the thread with anti-Israel rhetoric, it has indeed become a thread about the oppression suffered by Palestinians.

Just one question to you 'regulars' - how many of you have actually visited Gaza and know what you speak of to be true? Or do you simply rely on the various media sources to provide you with your information?

Why does everything get so twisted? This forum is open to anyone who wants to post. People can choose to lurk or contribute. If people can't think of anything to say in defence of israel other than the existence of Hamas and anti Semitism fully justifies 70 years of escalating violence and theft against the collective Palestinian populace, then that might account for any perceived lack of balance. Feel free to put us straight. And if you're bored with the thread, why are you here? Please don't waste our time with unsubstantiated complaints about bias (can you comment on the balance of tweets by peter stefanovic, for example?), pitiful efforts to draw attention away from what Israel is doing in Palestine (ooh, look at syria, egypt..., you're all hiding on this thread, a few posters are dominating it etc). Don't worry about dodgy media references. They're all there in black and white for people to check out and evaluate themselves.

BTW I havent been to israel or gaza. But then i don't have heart disease or diabetes: does that bar me from learning about these conditions or from expressing an opinion on them?

Report in The Guardian on Mahmoud Abbas' speech to the UN today.

again - no one is being 'anti israel'. they're being anti military murder of civilians. anti oppression and ethnic cleansing. pro human rights and international law.

i don't like some of my son's behaviour and work to counter it - it doesn't make me 'anti my son' but anti poor behaviour that has negative consequences on others.

but you know this. it's been explained tons of times.

Ive read all the threads and have posted a few times. I'm shocked that there are mnetters who continue to support Israel' s military occupation of Palestine.

Israel's military occupation of Palestine?

So ok then, just to humour you- where exactly do you think Palestine is?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Palestine

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_territories

and in case you didn't know

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_occupation

compare

[[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_military_administration_in_occupied_France_during_World_War_II]

and

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_Poland_(1939%E2%80%9345)