Part 6: Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[AndHarry]

Sorry, lost the end of the thread there!

Thread 5

maami .... 'Hamas is Israel's creation' and you wonder why the Hamas propaganda who apparently have no responsibility in their war with Israel and just turns people off on these boards?

If Israel had killed bunches of people meeting in the open in the early days of Hamas, who would have been bleating then about Israel killing 'innocents'???

I read the other day how ISIS has tens of thousands of Twitter accounts to spread their propaganda...how many Hamas ones do you think it would take on Mumsnet - shall we count????

You can be angry with the Israeli government for what it is doing to the Palestinians, about Israeli anti-Arab racism, and anti-Semitism, wherever it may occur, all at the same time

You can, yes - and many of us are. Unfortunately that just isn't enough for some ... the only acceptable position is to spit hatred over just one issue, ignoring all else

And then they wonder why I suggested this might be part of the problem, rather than helping towards a solution ...

quite a few have agreed with that racism actually. we've had lecture about how violent and extreme muslims are, we've been told 'they're not nice people', etc.

i'm assuming i'm being accused of 'spitting hatred'. because i don't believe in the bombing of civilians? because i don't think it is ever excusable to bomb schools and hospitals knowing they are filled with civilians?

it makes no sense to call people opposed to the murder of innocents 'hate spitting'. the israeli tactics and actions have been hateful. calling them what they are is not the act of hate, the actions themselves are.

just to be 100% clear for the zillionth time - i would condemn these actions whether they were committed by jews, christians, muslims or jedis. whether they were done by the state of america, britain, israel or luxemburg.

i believe in the precendents of international law and the upholding of human rights. i believe civilians should be protected from the perversity of war and the barbarism involved in land and resource grabbing. it really is pretty basic for me. for all the dressing up, diversions and propaganda the matter is as simple as 'do you think it's ok to bomb and brutalise a trapped population as collective punishment or do you not?' it really is as simple as do you agree with bombing homes, schools, hospitals, playgrounds etc or do you not. for me the answer is simple and has nothing to do with which hand is on the button.

"you can insult those of us who stand against it as much as you like and claim we're hysterical or crazy or extremist for thinking that civilians should not be murdered in their beds, their schools, their hospitals but any right minded person knows that in the face of the brutal murdering of innocents emotion is the right response. less than emotion is psychopathy."

You think that his why we have a problem with you? Because we obviously laugh and cheer at each palestinian death unlike you who feels the pain and oppression Soooo much, we just don't understand the pain and suffering you are feeling. Life is so unfair and so unjust - no one understands it like you. Actually, you are coming across as a stroppy teenager throwing a tantrum as no one understands you. You keep insisting that those who have taken issue with the hysterical and bigoted, black and white rants designed to close down reasonable discussion and chase people from the thread by just screaming Nazi, genocide supporter and on and on and on - are all in support of Israelis plans to wipe out and kill every Arab in Israel. You are ridiculous.

and of course on moral grounds i also condemn hamas' bombings where they have actually caused harm but i can/do see the difference between a resistance movement against a people who are collectively profiting from your oppression and the use of one of the most advanced military machines against civilians already trapped in an illegal open air prison.

bambam this is nothign to do with 'my' suffering - those are real people who have died. you can throw the word hysterical around as much as you like. i am against murdering of innocents. if that makes me hysterical so be it.

i have to believe that anyone with any sense and intelligence (and for me compassion and ethics are a vital element of anything worthy of calling intelligence) can see what you're doing on this thread and see what you're throwing at me for the nastiness and diversion it is.

for any right minded person the murdering of families in their beds, the bombing of children in school or sick people in hospital is just plain evil. simple as that. that doesn't make me hysterical or extremist. it's just a basic... sense of right and wrong.

you can attack me all you like. i will never agree that it is ok to slaughter human beings trying to sleep or go to school or get medical treatment. if it's you being treated like this tomorrow i will defend you as vociferously as i will defend the palestinians.

and surprisingly, even to me, i will pray for you.

As the worlds attention is NOW focused on the dangers of the Sunni Islamic Jihadists called ISIS/ISIL/IS, maybe we can have several thousand posts NEXT away from the the Sunni Islamic Jihadists called Hamas/HA, laughing at all the attention THEIR democratically elected arses are getting, in firing/tunneling to israel - knowing what comes back at them soon after.

Save your prayers for the Palestinians and Israelis and yourself - you need them for some of the bigoted, ugly drivel that has been written here. Poor you fighting against all us blood thirsty Palestinian hating genocide supporters. As no one has actually said anything like this there might be some delusion at play.

I'm assuming i'm being accused of 'spitting hatred'. because i don't believe in the bombing of civilians? because i don't think it is ever excusable to bomb schools and hospitals knowing they are filled with civilians?

As so often you assume wrong, and this comment yesterday was in much the same vein: to be called vicious for being against the actually vicious murdering of civilians is ridiculous

Perhaps you'd do better to read what others actually write, rather than what you think they've written ... and also, maybe, try to understand that not every post is exclusively about you?

you don't get to get all high and mighty over tenuous accusations of anti semitism whilst remaining silent about flagrant, outright racism and propaganda against another ethnic group.

I haven't posted much about Israel and Palestine on these threads, because I understand it is not a place for analysis or problem solving. Since Maami signed up to join the rant, its got even more difficult to have a conversation.
Still, I have consistently said I think Netanyahu is a loon and his course of action was wrong. I'll add here (in case there is any doubt) that I think people shouting Death to the Arabs are as nutty as those who shout Death to Americans.

However, there is genuine anti-semitism, both here and in real life. If you, Honeybadger, want to position yourself as someone who mysteriously knows better than anyone else that there is actually no anti-semitism, and everyone who has experienced it is lying and some cynical opportunist, then you make yourself look even more of a twat than ever.

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/jewish-communities-see-massive-surge-7718255

And now, it looks like I am once again in the payroll of the Israeli state for saying such "outrageous" things?
Wow.

thank you John for your sensible post a while back about your studies of the ME, it is always complex. a different topic but you could argue some of the Germans in ww2 were not necessarily evil but were frightened and kept quiet when Jewish people were badly treated, it doesn't mean they were happy with the situation.

I went to Israel in 1993 and remember meeting some lovely palestinian christians and Jewish people.

Hear hear, JohnFarleys.

it's getting very personal and attacking on here. it would be nice to keep to the topic rather than personal attacks on individual posters. presumably you have strong arguments as to why it is ok to murder thousands of civilians so you don't need to waste time attacking posters on a personal level?

not from me

Who said its okay to attack thousands of people? This is your fiction, Honey.

ok. obviously i'm feeling rather singled out and attacked currently and that's fine i guess. i do find it hard to understand why all the spite and attack towards me whilst seeming indifference about the murder of children. what is it i am meant to have said or done that is so despicable?

i believe it is wrong to murder people, i believe it is wrong to use military arsenals against civilians and i have expressed so. is this really so awful of me?

why am i so under attack from a few vocal posters on here for this viewpoint?

of course i end up thinking you must disagree with my viewpoint if you're attacking me so strongly for expressing it.

"presumably you have strong arguments as to why it is ok to murder thousands of civilians so you don't need to waste time attacking posters on a personal level?"

Stop being so disingenuous Honey. You are being attacked? You continue to post snide, fictional or delusional claims such as above.

well are you ok with it? what are your arguments in defence of thousands of deaths?

when you've answered those feel free to tell me what it is about me and my viewpoints that is so repugnant as to justify all of your attacks.

"Stop being so disingenuous Honey. You are being attacked? You continue to post snide, fictional or delusional claims such as above"

Yep, another attack there.

What are your arguments in defence of thousands of Palestinian deaths Honey?

it's getting really nasty and personal pigletjohn.

Bambambini says "Difference is Israel had much to fear from Palestinians."

The truth is that the Palestinians had much to fear from the Israelis. From the moment Israel emerged, Palestinians lost their homes, their land, and their lives. It is still happening today.