Part 6: Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[AndHarry]

Sorry, lost the end of the thread there!

Thread 5

Puzzledandpissedoff - "To me, all of these deaths are appalling; the question of "what side they're on" matters less than the issue that every single one of them leaves behind a devastated family and friends, not to mention the potential for further hatred born of their grief."

I very much agree.

As this graphic shows, far more Palestinians than Israelis have died over the past 14 years, but that doesn't negate the fact that every death is still a tragedy.

PigletJohn, I don't quite understand your analogy. If the old lady is meant to be the Palestinian people in general, rather than Hamas, why are you saying she hit you with her umbrella? Most people killed in Gaza were civilians, many of them children. They were not the ones firing the rockets. And I hope you are not comparing the killing of a four-year-old boy by a rocket to a scuffed boot?

Didadida, the most recent fighting in Gaza may be over but that is certainly far from the case for the Israel-Palestinian conflict. There was a short thread started recently on Syria (not specifically on the Palestinians in Syria) here if you are interested.

And I now believe there are more than a couple of true anti Semites on this thread.

"Why the emphasis on "Jewish" here when you could have just said Israeli"

Because it is possible to be an Israeli who is not a Jew. Did you seriously not know that, or are you just pretending?

AFAIK the Christian Israelis, and the Buddhist Israelis are not active in stealing homes and land, building illegal settlements, and bulldozing thousand-year-old olive trees. AFAIK that is very much a Jewish preoccupation, to ethnically cleanse Palestine of the non-Jews.

How do you know Christian or Buddhist or even secular Israelis didn't vote for Bibi and his policies?

have you seen me making an assertion about voting habits?

But you can probably tell me, which religion has adherents some of whom think that a god has promised them ownership of Palestine, and they are therefore entitled to steal homes and land? I don't think it's the Buddhists.

I didn't say you'd made an assertion about voting habits. Where did I say that? I asked you a question.

A question which should make one question your assertion about Jewish people being so determined on ethnic cleansing.

Do you approve of Hamas?

Your question "How do you know" only makes sense if you have decided I have made an assertion about voting habits.

I haven't

Since someone mentioned anti semitism, a thread was started on 1 September with exactly that title - there are 18 comments on it

Is anyone in the least doubt what that thread would look like, had the title been "Islamophobia" or even a more generic "Racism" ??

And before anyone starts ranting, I wouldn't be especially impressed to see only 18 replies on either of those either; I'm simply intrigued that this particular thread has been so largely ignored

Winky, care to comment on the islamophobic rubbish posted on here by more than a couple of Israeli apologists. Or is anti-semitism more outrageous than islamophobia?

Of course it's not more acceptable.

Israeli apologists? Oh okay. Plenty of Hamas apologists on here!

I'm neither. I think the Israeli government and Hamas are both wankers.

exactly, a bit of balance.

Winky, i have no loyalty to Hamas but what speaks volumes to me is that even Hamas are willing to be charged with war crimes, as long as the Palestinians get the justice they deserve.

Hamas should be held to account for its crimes, every Israeli government and settler for the last six decades should be held to account for their violation of the Palestinians.

The "war" is over??? I don't think so. People still dying from injuries sustained weeks ago. Leccy and water crises with no resolution in sight. Lessons for kids on how to identify unexploded munitions and how to cope without sanitation instead of proper school. Substantial proportion of the population permanently displaced. No genuine easing of the siege. Fishermen being fired on. Great parcels of land being snatched in spite of the world's objections.

There's an alternative view on the definition of war set out in smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/art/what-is-war-a-new-point-of-view which goes some way to explaining the current debate about why jewish organisations outside of Israel are so determined to maintain 'one voice' on Israel's stance despite the unhappiness of so many individuals they claim to represent.

we've had that discussion on here (as to why people don't talk a lot about anti-semitism) and concluded it's because the vast majority of us have never heard or seen it in our lifetimes and that anti israel sentiment is not anti-semitism but about the actions of a nation.

even jewish posters were agreeing they'd never really seen any anti semitism ever whereas racism in the general and islamophobia are rife.

recent events were not a war btw. it was an attack on a trapped people. that's not a war, it's ethnic cleansing and international war crimes.

Still no excuse for the ethnic cleansing and massacres being carried out by israel. If someone took my land and killed my family... And i fought back for it; am i in the wrong or them..?

Obviously only those with a screwed up moral sense will say the latter...

Puzzledandpissedoff, there was a long thread on antisemitism about one month ago. You won't be surprised to learn that Piglet John's comments were mostly deleted by mumsnet. Posters offered such insightful thoughts as, 'at least they (Jews in Europre) can sleep in their beds without being bombed.' It got nasty.

Honeys right, although in general you are not allowed to discuss anti-semitism on these threads, because it is a 'distraction' from the threads true purpose. In the last thread, many non-Jewish (I think) posters, inc. Honey, (and yes, one declared Jewish poster) insisted they had never ever seen anti-semitism. Then someone posted some old school antisemitic video entitled synagogues of satan and some bile. Everyone ignored it. I guess they never see anti-semitism. I picked up on it and Honey was very annoyed, right Honey? talking about those derailing the thread with 'accusations' of anti-semitism again. You even sent a friendly PM to the anti-semitic poster, right, honey?

Then I was told I was a troll. If I wasn't a troll it was disgusting that I supported the murder of children. Weird, I thought. I had only discussed anti-semitism.

Anyway, these threads are clearly no longer discussion threads. They are a place for "anti-war campaginers" - ha - to gather so they can ignore the desperate situation in Syria, the murder/ethnic cleansing of thousands of Kurds, the growth of ISIS, the beheading of Americans, the threat of terrorism, the overthrow of states, all the terrible troubles in Middle East, and where they can blame all the wrong in the Middle East on the "Pro-Nazi Jewish state of Israel.

I'm surprised that Pigletohh hadn't boycotted mumsnet TBH. So many deleted posts show mumsnet obviously thinks they are out of order and doesn't agree with their opinions. Where are the shouts that mumsnet are nazi jewish Israeli apologists, supporters of genocidal ethic cleansing scum? Boycott them, add them to the list of dates and jaffas and those weird big orange flowers they grow that you never see in folks houses.

This is the Israel/Palestine thread.

No surprise that it is about Israel and Palestine, and is not about Syria, bird-watching, gardening, cake-making or any other subject that you may be interested in. Nobody will stop you starting threads about other topics.

yes but Syria is still the Middle East and proximate

i don't recognise that version of events no but then this thread isn't about trying to slander people who are against the murder of civilians is it?

Any discussion of the treatment of Palestinians by other countries eg. expulsion by Kuwait, boarders locked by Egypt, has been closed down. The murder of 1000's of Palestinians (by Syria, recently) doesn't get a mention. This is not the Israel Palestine thread, it is the Israel is scum thread.

When I was at University, yes Honey, thank you for the previous advice to educate myself, I studied politics at a Russell Group University, specializing in the Middle East, we had to look at the region as a whole, constantly. If we were looking at, say, the rise of Khomeni or the collapse of Lebanon, we had to understand it in context: the influx of immigrants, the effect of the policies of neighbours, domino theory, etc, etc, not here though - compare and contrast is not encouraged, do not be diverted from the mission: Israel is more evil than everyone else.

fucking boring after a while. Plus, patently, embarrassingly, untrue.

i'd appreciate it if you'd stop trying to drag me into personal dispute - if you had issue with me on a previous thread presumably you said so then rather than needing to drag it over onto this thread.