Part 6: Israeli-Palestinian conflict

[AndHarry]

Sorry, lost the end of the thread there!

Thread 5

Panorama's 'The War of the Tunnels' seems to be being aired on Thursday at 4.30am. One to record.

Kelly1814

You weren't strip searched by 16 year olds with machine guns. Israeli 16 year olds go to school. Most then go to the army. The security personnel at the airport who ask the questions are 20 or older. They are also not armed with machibe guns.

Total bs. Like most of the disinformation on this thread from people who know.tiddly squat about Israel and Israeli society.

And for those who took umbrage about being asked questions about sexual relations during the security checks, it's because of things like the hindawi affair where a Palestinian tried to blow up an israeli plane by planting a bomb in the suitcase of his 5 month pregnant Irish girlfriend.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindawi_affair

So, no, it's not a power trip by those mean, nasty Israelis against poor you (I suspect that they really couldn't have cared less and that you really weren't that important to them) and, no, you don't now understand the Palestinians having now suffered a little bit like them, you still know as little about Israeli-Palestinian conflict as you did before. This is about not having bombs sneaked onto planes or across borders.

Of course Isis was created by the mossad!

Oh and the mossad was also responsible for the twin towers, Lockerbie and the assassination of jfk.

Ridiculous thread. Hiding it now so I don't get sucked in.

"When we were on the plane home (after 5 hour interrogation and strip search at tel aviv airport, at the hands of 16 year olds with machine guns,"

Exactly. Israel has many flaws but this is all too serious to start making things up and going for extreme exaggeration. Write crap like this and people will start to wonder what the agenda is and what other nonsense is being spouted. Next I will be pics and diagrams about the shape of their heads and how their brains aren't formed like other humans.

I found this an interesting view - Eyal Weizman's architectural analysis - of the occupation and assaults on palestinian land and cities. Particularly enlightening for me was the the idea of inverting public and private space, explaining the IDF's use of homes and why there are so many holes knocked through domestic walls. Hope his 'forensic architecture' can be used in the ICC. m.aljazeera.com/story/2014629113556647744

I hope you lot boycotting Israeli products have been burning your books by Jewish Israeli authors too.

You do realise you all sound like complete nutters don't you.

^I hope you lot boycotting Israeli products have been burning your books by Jewish Israeli authors too.

You do realise you all sound like complete nutters don't you.^

You do realise that boycotting means no longer buying not destroying what you already have or no longer using something you have already paid for prior to your decision to boycott.

Destroying something that you have already exchanged money for isn't boycotting.

goldvelvet - and you do realise that my post was to point out an analogy between those who have labelled and boycotted Jewish businesses in the past and those doing the same now to Israeli ones.

Don't forget that during the war Palestinian leaders were on the Nazis' side. Don't forget that the Hamas charter calls explicitly for the destruction of all Jews. Don't forget that the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is still widely read in Muslim Middle Eastern countries. These are not nice people just like you or I with nice, acceptable, moderate ideas. The people you are supporting are genocidal nutters.

I am sure there are people naive enough to imagine you can associate with far-right extremists and yet remain 'the good guys'.

In reality those people boycotting Israel now need to examine what they are doing and the reasons behind it.

Because to an observer with any knowledge of history, you appear to be aiming to repeat one of the most shameful episodes of the twentieth century. That you are unlikely to succeed the second time around is some comfort to normal people, but no comfort at all to your conscience, surely.

"These are not nice people just like you or I with nice, acceptable, moderate ideas. "

I have never turfed someone out of their home, stole their land, or bulldozed their thousand year old olive trees. Neither have I bombed their school or fired shells at children playing football on a beach.

People who do that aren't nice people like me. Are they people like you?

Just to point out what some seem determined to overlook, that any support on this thread has been for the hundreds, nay thousands, of innocent children, women, elderly, and quite honestly also innocent men of fighting age whose lives are regularly being assaulted - mentally, emotionally, and physically - in humiliating and painful ways. Illegally. Some don't seem able to distinguish between support for these people and support for Hamas.

Also to point out, for those who think it important to consider the historical perspective, that if you're at all concerned about racism and genocide, it's worth acknowledging how the zionists worked the british and Americans throughout the 20s and 30s to ensure the way was clear to create the state of Israel at the expense of the 'Mohammedans'. Violence and death has been a feature of life for Palestinians for quite some time. YouTube.com/watch?v=bm7dMhE80dw&feature=youth.be I suspect however, that the 'shameful historical episode' that Didadida was referring to came after that. So let's admit that everyone, including israel, seems to have a problem learning from history.

Just to be clear, boycotting is carried out by ordinary people who respect the rule of (international) law and the voice of the majority so take umbrage that elected leaders abuse their positions, and refuse to behave democratically but instead follow the dictates of those who support them financially, allowing the real "genocidal nutters" to use their military might to shed blood and create environmental havoc in a shameful attempt to gain control over resources. Boycotting is a non-violent attempt to combat this financial means of controlling policy.

You'll be glad to know that I'm not naive enough to think it will work immediately. I'm quite sure there are a lot of lawyers cooking up schemes right now to reorganise their exploitative businesses such that the reality of their illegal and immoral operations is pretty safely obscured. For instance, i believe it's quite difficult to actually find out the extent of political funding provided by e.g. the Conservative Friends of Israel. Some have tried and exposed a significant relationship tho it's most likely just the tip of the iceberg. And it's really impossible not to see the connection between even just the financial support for politicians that we do know about (£10m of donations in the 8 years up to the start of 2011) and the fact that Cameron and Obama conveniently overlook the hypocrisy involved in criticising (not to mention going as far as using sanctions against) Putin for killing innocent civilians by using mœilitary force to grab land whilst 'standing shoulder to shoulder' with a state that time and again does exactly that. But i do believe we can make a difference, that there'll come a tipping point.

So yeah, I think those who are boycotting have thought long and hard about the nature of injustice. And no, I won't be burning anything written by Gideon Levy or Jeff Halper or Ilan Pappe ... But interesting/depressing to note the use of an analogy involving such a pointlessly destructive action.

"I am sure there are people naive enough to imagine you can associate with far-right extremists and yet remain 'the good guys'."

Didadida speaks truer than she knows.

Hmm, I wonder if the apologists feel shame over how Israel treats the Palestinians? Obviously not much.

Today being pro israeli= to pro ethnic cleansing and genocide. Ignore the butters; theyve got thier panties in a twist. Obviously the BDS campaign has reached new heights and never been so good!!

So keep it up guys.. are doing brilliantly. We are going upwards and onwards for the palestinians!!

www.bdsmovement.net/2014/round-up-creative-actions-and-grassroots-campaigns-boost-boycott-and-sanctions-momentum-and-prioritize-military-embargo-on-israel-12491

• Oakland activists prevent Israeli ship from docking for 4 days;
• Elbit arms factories in UK and Australia occupied by protesters
• EU to ban Israeli dairy and meat imports with any settlement connections
• European retailers and companies boycott Israel
• 7-million strong National Union of Students (UK) endorses BDS
• Fourth Scottish city council endorses the boycott of Israel

• See more at: www.bdsmovement.net/2014/round-up-creative-actions-and-grassroots-campaigns-boost-boycott-and-sanctions-momentum-and-prioritize-military-embargo-on-israel-12491#sthash.4RactybI.dpuf

Hmm, I wonder if the apologists feel shame over how Israel treats the Palestinians? Obviously not much..
Nope but compare them to pro nazi and watch them run from the threads!

I think calling someone pro-Nazi is unfair and adds nothing to the debate maami. In fact it stifles debate. I don't think any of the pro-Israel posters agree with the occupation or land grabs. I may not agree with everything that is written but everyone has a right to express their views and to be treated respectfully.

I wish we could have a civilised debate, acknowledge that there is fault on both sides, find common ground and have a constructive discussion on how things could change in the future - rather than hounding out anyone who offers a different perspective with cries of "genocide and child-killing apologist". Then when the thread moves on to asking if anyone who has lived on Israel can tell us about education there, there is no-one left who can answer.

In fact I sometimes wish we could move beyond the terms pro-Israel or pro-Palestine and just be pro-peace or pro-compromise or pro-life (as in not dying).

Maami you sound gleeful. Quite inappropriate. Plus I think you talk a lot of shite sometimes.

Exactly halfdrunk.

I completely agree halfdrunkcoffee. It's depressing. I have almost given up on the idea of a civilised debate on this thread.

'these are not nice people like us' i realise it's just a given when you're a racist but, dear lord.

are they even people do you think? or snakes? a plague?

glad to hear of the boycott successes and sad but sadly unsurprised to hear of more land grabbing.

i wonder what it is like now in gaza, trying to cope with aftermath, trying to mourn for the dead, no school to go to, injured family to look after, living amongst rubble, comforting little children who have been traumatised.... we can't imagine really. it amazes me that people defend such wanton inhumanity and destroying of life and environment. that their defense is 'these are not nice people' and that actually flies in their circles is stunning.

You can not have reasoned discussion with people who have such extremist views that simplifies the whole situation down to Palestine = good, Israel = evil. Who scream, accuse and drown out any voice who doesn't see it exactly this way, exactly their way. They chase off the majority or reasonable people, those interested and those who come to have a look and learn more. I think they actually do more harm than good for the Palestinians plight.

that's a very interesting opinion bambam. thanks for sharing. no doubt it will be the boycotters fault as well as the palestinians own fault that israel are forced to kill them soon.

You're welcome.