I despair at Israel sometimes

[AndHarry]

Well, often really. I have family out there who have a bomb shelter in their house and have had to evacuate for weeks at a time so I have great sympathy for ordinary Israelis trying to go about their lives. What happened to 3 sch

[unrealhousewife]

Babas what would have been the alternative to the wall? More of the same slaughter?

[babbas]

I'm totally against the slaughter of innocent Israelis. However you cannot protect the rights of one group of people by eroding the rights and blockading in another group of people. The loss of life has always been greater on the palestinian side anyway.

[unrealhousewife]

So what's the solution Babbas? The wall is a matter of desperate measures, not principle.

[AndHarry]

I got that Quivering :o I'm genuinely interested to know how young Israelis and Palestinians can be brought up respecting and accepting one another.

[unrealhousewife]

AndHarry responding to your earlier post, I agree there has to be a third way, and it has to start by giving the peaceful among both groups, I suppose the vast majority, protection and priority.

Integrated schools are the best solution, but the extremists stop at nothing. They are unaccountable and full of hate. The media taking sides on a shallow anti US level also doesn't help.

[TucsonGirl]

How can you integrate schools when Israel and Palestine are two separate countries?

[AndHarry]

They're not exactly two separate countries like Israel and Egypt. More like England and a heavily fortified Scotland.

[donnie]

BTW shakshuka - you keep harping on about needing 'proof that the Gazans are starving' - I'd like you to read back over the thread and locate the precise moment when I made that comment. What I actually said was the following:

"Gaza IS a ghetto: it has been blockaded by Israel for years and has chronic shortages of medicine, food and water. People are not allowed free passage on or out. That makes it pretty much a ghetto" I think you will find that the word 'starving' appeared in your post, not mine.

It's a little disingenuous to accuse ME of saying something that YOU said isn't it? and then to refuse to look at the OXFAM and DEC websites , which provide information about chronic food shortages on Gaza as I suggested because you seem to regard them as unreliable sources.

So the moral is as follows: don't accuse people wrongly. You are accusing people on this board of lying. You as good as told AndHarry that she was lying about her relative being denied a civil service job. You accuse cheekygeeky of 'not understanding' the purpose of the wall.

[donnie]

Quivering: I agree with everything you suggest but you forgot one very important further point which I am sure you will also agree with

4) That Israel stops its systematic annexation of Palestinian land and farms under the pretext of 'natural expansion'. Which btw is regarded as illegal under the terms in intl law.

Yes?

[unrealhousewife]

The population of Israel is 8 millon, 75% Jewish. That's a lot of fighting for a relatively small number of people, I do wonder why they stay there - surely they'd be happier somewhere like Australia or the US?

Perhaps they should give them territories so the Israeli people can live in peace and let the terrorists stew in their own hatred.

God doesn't live in a Territory, he lives somewhere in the ether, surely?

I think the battle for peace in the Middle East is simply unrealistic. Murdering psychopaths don't want peace, they thrive on hate and will continue to murder until the innocent also become full of hate. I really don't get the point of it at all.

[AndHarry]

Here are some things I'd like to see:

Palestinian Authority areas:

• a full independent assessment of civilian construction requirements, with materials for these projects brought in and audited to make sure they're used where they're supposed to be used;
  

• access to safe play areas for all children;
  

• access to free, age-appropriate education for children aged 3-18, including building purpose-built schools and a broad-based independent curriculum;
  

• state-funded play therapy for children as part of the curriculum;
  

• universal access to affordable healthcare.
  

• proper training of the police force as a skilled, politically neutral unit, probably using foreign instructors;
  

• independent foreign training of civil servants, construction engineers, doctors, nurses and teachers.
  

Israel:

• an end to 'organic expansion' in settlements within Palestinian areas;
  

• all children to be educated using an independent curriculum;
  

• state-funded play therapy for children living in settlements, areas under threat from rocket attacks and all other children at high risk of emotional, mental or physical harm from the conflict.
  

Both sides:

• funded opportunities for young people from both sides to come together in a safe way e.g. a number of mixed schools and extra-curricular clubs in border areas; summer camps for school children held in Europe, scholarships for an equal number of Palestinians and Israelis to attend a foreign university to study the same course together, joint delegations to worldwide youth events like the annual Scout jamboree, a youth committee of young representatives to discuss issues, joint vocational training abroad.
  

• a neutral, independent media outlet broadcasting in both languages and reporting news and features from both sides;
  

• a hot line like the 'red telephone' between the Israeli and Palestinian PMs to immediately discuss issues like the kidnappings together in a direct way.
  

What would you like to see?

[AndHarry]

Sorry, lots of cross-posts. Yes I agree that Palestinian militants must stop using schools and hospitals as bases of operations against Israel. Yes prisoners must be treated in accordance with international law. Yes to essential supplies being distributed fairly. The other points are a bit of a grey area as there's no official Palestinian army and it could be argued that the militants are providing that function (badly).

[donnie]

You may be right about the UN and Hamas Quivering, but on a wider scale the UN has reported and commented very fully on humanitarian crises and war crimes/atrocities in Syria, Darfur, Cote d'Ivoire, Haiti and Egypt in the very recent past. That is why I challenged what you said.

[unrealhousewife]

Because Uganda isn't safe.

If you want to continue to drag generation after generation through pain and slaughter, by all means carry on.

You can't deal with these murderers by developing education policies with them, it needs to be accepted that there is nothing anyone can do to change their minds. They hate Jews and will continue to try and kill them. Why not go somewhere safe?

We'll still be saying the same thing 20 years and how many murders down the line.

[donnie]

Wow unrealhousewife. You're an extremist aren't you. Still, even ISIS have a right to speak their views, so I suppose you do too.

[unrealhousewife]

Thanks donnie, for being so gracious and allowing me to have an opinion.

[donnie]

I would be interested to know what you mean by 'God does not live in a Territory', as would others I'm sure.

[unrealhousewife]

Religion doesn't have a location. That's what I mean. Your faith is in your spirit/heart whatever you call it. I personally don't believe in any of the fairy stories but that's what I mean.