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Oscar Pistorius Trial Part 6

997 replies

Roussette · 03/05/2014 17:18

here is Part 5 but we are ready (nearly) for a new one.

OP posts:
LouiseBrooks · 05/05/2014 18:02

Frank must surely have provided a statement, even if it says "I heard nothing" and by that does he mean "I didn't hear any prior argument" or "I heard nothing at all" because that isn't true. He patently heard something even if it was only the gunshots because he was outside with security at the same time the Standers arrived.

As for the dogs, they must have barked at some point - again even if it was only when the gunshots went off. I can't imagine any dog would not bark at a series of loud bangs.

voiceofgodot · 05/05/2014 18:12

From all I've read Louise the most I have gathered (according to journo Barry Bateman) is that his statement said next to nothing.

"The sum of Frank Chiziweni’s statement to the police was - I saw nothing. I heard nothing. I know nothing. BB"

(from his Twitter feed)

Springy - good point re. the water feature. Where did that come from? Off to check...

voiceofgodot · 05/05/2014 18:18

Interesting exchange between BB and @CriminalLawSA on Twitter as follows:

  • @barrybateman Seems Nel is pursuing the point that it doesn't matter who was behind the door - that #OP was not under attack and knew it.
  • @CriminalLawZA what leads you to this conclusion?
  • @barrybateman Nel's insistence that Stander admit Oscar said he shot RS because he thought she was an intruder - no mistake/accident.

I keep forgetting that Nel is not as focussed on the 'did he know it was Reeva?' question as so many of us observers are. I think he is distracting OP by attacking him on all the argument/you killed her deliberately points, whilst surreptitiously gleaning exactly what he needs in order to get a decent murder conviction through.

PD6966 · 05/05/2014 18:21

After listening to the live trial, I feel that both defence witness added nothing to the case for the defence. I found Stander's claim of 'truth' distasteful.
Stander: My lady, to see the expression on his face, the sorrow. Him crying. His praying. He is asking God to help him. It is, he was torn apart. Broken, desperate. Pleading. It is difficult to describe. His commitment to save the young lades' life, when he put his finger in her mouth to keep the airway open. How he begged God, to keep her alive. I saw the truth there that morning. I saw it and I feel it.

Hillwalker · 05/05/2014 18:37

Good post, voice. It doesn't matter who was in the toilet; it was still murder if there was intent to kill whoever it was.

LookingThroughTheFog · 05/05/2014 19:00

Agreed. I wondered too at the point when Stander voluntarily said that if he shot four or eight times, he would be in trouble, because you can't do that. It's intrestesting to me that his thoughts leapt quite quickly to Oscar's legal trouble, before even the paramedics had even arrived.

RonaldMcDonald · 05/05/2014 19:16

Pd

Good post

voiceofgodot · 05/05/2014 19:16

PD in particular I found this part of Stander's testimony sounded horribly rehearsed:

"Broken... ... Desperate... ... Pleading."

YNK · 05/05/2014 19:16

It's no surprise that Frank had nothing to say I suppose, because that is exactly what was in OP's statement to the police - nothing!
He had already been advised by his family solicitor, Oldwage.

StackALee · 05/05/2014 19:20

The handbag was crime scene evidence, removing it (even with 'good intentions) beggars belief.

Hillwalker · 05/05/2014 19:33

Aimee could have put other things in the handbag, watches for example. How is removing it not a crime?

YNK · 05/05/2014 19:45

Aimee would know that from the family solicitor.

I believe that at the area of the boating accident they quickly secured the scene and prevented locals from touching anything.
Sorry I cannot remember where I read this. I have read so much lately.

voiceofgodot · 05/05/2014 19:48

Aimee would know that from the family solicitor.

Would know what? That removing the bag was a crime? Just because somebody has a family solicitor it doesn't mean they are experts in how to not tamper with a crime scene unwittingly...

Nerf · 05/05/2014 19:50

I thought the daughter implied that the police had been okay with them taking it. I guess at that point they were thinking tragic accident and not crime scene and that it was something they could do.

AmIthatSpringy · 05/05/2014 20:22

Just catching up. What time did Aimee take the bag, does anyone know? I wonder if the police had looked at it and done what they needed in terms of evidence.? just a thought as i know nothing about evidence gathering

And yy to the poster who commented on Nel's strategy. That is exactly what he is doing. OP is basically defending two murder charges at once

YNK · 05/05/2014 20:23

Stander is the estate administrator and keeps the records for the residents and yet when questioned he says.

A) the 'home invasion' incident happened between 2010 and 2011
b) the burglary using a ladder was in 2012.

Nel informed him, both incidents took place in 2009!
No wonder Nel looked pleased with himself today!

Incidentally, how many defense witnesses have been cited? I wonder why Roux could not replace the ones that were scheduled for today?

LouiseBrooks · 05/05/2014 20:26

Aimee being allowed to take the bag does seem extremely odd to us, yes but it's become apparent to me through reports of various cases that the police (in various countries) don't always preserve the crime scene in the way they should. Reeva's phone wasn't in the handbag and I suspect that the police didn't think Aimee was going to nick Reeva's loose change.

As for putting something in it Hillwalker I see your point but since Aimee was accompanied by a cop while she packed OP's stuff, there's not much chance of her doing that. Still doesn't make it right of course but maybe Aimee thought she was being helpful.

LookingThroughTheFog · 05/05/2014 20:26

What time did Aimee take the bag,

When they packed and took a bag for Oscar, which they implied was after sun-up on the 14th.

I'm pretty sure it should have been left, though it makes me wonder how they logged the clothes in the bag for Oscar.

YNK · 05/05/2014 20:28

Nerf, Carice wouldn't know what the police's response would have been to Aimee taking the bag since she stayed in the car.

Aimee and her were in a car behind OP about to leave, when Aimee suddenly went back for the handbag. They didn't discuss it together.

I think it was Carl who took OP's phone and kept it for 8 hours until the police got it back.

voiceofgodot · 05/05/2014 20:29

Stander resigned from the job in January 2013. I don't expect him to have committed those dates to memory tbh. Although the fact that they are so vague I think demonstrated that they weren't perhaps that prominent in people's memories in general ie. wouldn't have caused OP to have an unnatural obsession with security on Silver Woods.

AmIthatSpringy · 05/05/2014 20:29

Thanks Looking. I did get the impression it was much later.

Nerf · 05/05/2014 20:31

Oh right. I thought it was carice as she was giving testimony about it. Knew she and Aimee were in the car wondering if they should.

LookingThroughTheFog · 05/05/2014 20:31

it's become apparent to me through reports of various cases that the police (in various countries) don't always preserve the crime scene in the way they should.

I agree with this. There's a whole heap of surprises to us, particularly those of us in the UK.

There, all the witnesses called security before they called the police. That's apparently what they do there. We just pick up the phone and go for 101 or 999.

The ambulances were odd too. Pistorius seems to have called one company, and the estate manager another. Oscar was (apparently) told to move the injured woman in a way that makes no sense to us. The estate manager had a long conversation, needing to hand over to his daughter because the ambulance were trying to decide where it was and how to get there. Again, this makes no sense to us with our knowledge of the UK service.

It doesn't seem odd to the people in the courtroom that OP would have a houseboy, nor that he would refuse to talk. This is just accepted. Here, if we had, say, a cleaner, on the premises when a crime took place of course she or he would be questioned. I for one would like to know whether OP instructed Frank to make sure the ladders were removed at night. But Frank is pretty much a non entity.

The cultures are massively different in so many ways.

AmIthatSpringy · 05/05/2014 20:34

nerd!they did discuss it, didn't they? Or am I imagining the part when they wondered whether to go back for the bag ?

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