I can't link to the Sky news interview with Nigel Farage but it was terrible

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It was Kay Burley. About 3pm today. She made his case for him just now and I don't even think she meant it. In fact I think she's sure she made a good job of portraying him as a mad racist while talking to him about UKIP's poster suggesting migrant workers were stealing British jobs.

He seemed quite reasonable in the face of Burley. He didn't emerge as racist - protectionist at best - xenophobic at worst. He didn't even grab anyone round the throat or ask them if they'd have given it up a bit more their husband wouldn't have been tempted to murder prostitutes.

Then she went on about a pretty young woman they're featuring as a candidate who is from her appearance, clearly of Anglo-Asian background and demanding why UKIP didn't declare her background. Burley was the one who mentioned pretty. Not me or Farage.

Farage asked why they should and to be fair I had to agree. And also, she's a pretty woman who's used a flattering picture on her literature. Wouldn't you? If you want to know more about her views then read her literature and ask her questions, rather than the party.

Oh criminy. I had to admit that Nigel seemed reasonable. They're heading for a major result in the European elections. In my mad moments I toy with voting UKIP just because I've always lived in Tory constituencies and want to crush them now more than ever.

It could happen here. I won't do it, but the temptation is fucking strong.

I'd think it was a right-wing plot if I didn't know Burley of old and realise it was incompetence.

Excellent article by Suanne Moore in the Guardian. She understands why people are voting UKIP in droves.

It is about the divorce of the elite from the people and the distrust the people now feel. The elite can't even find the language to communicate with the people because all they know is how to talk in spin. Clegg's abysmal performance in the debate with Farage showed that. There was a time when the people had to put up with it, but now they have had enough in droves. The patronising, nanny state control and spin has tipped the balance and the people are overturning the apple cart.

"The difference between the language of a managerial political class and the way that many people speak is huge. Half-hearted visions need to be translated into robotic nonsense such as the "squeezed middle". Phrases have to be invented, as there are not enough words to convey the passions of Cameron or Miliband.

Where there cannot even be a common language, there is no way of expressing common interests. We are linguistically divided.

This is about more than great oratory, it is about a kind of fear. The unmediated voices of ordinary people are a worry for every part of the establishment, including much of the media. They say the wrong things. They are ignorant of what is important. They are over-emotional. They can only appear on Radio 4, for instance, in oddly written dramas or asking experts about pensions. They remain unheard. Even social media serves mainly to amplify the already powerful."

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/23/nigel-farage-ukip-pustule-resentment-body-politic

Everything is spin - the BBC, Channel 4, the Guardian, Labour, Tory and of course the LibDums etc etc
People have finally tuned out and are voting for anything that goes against the patronising spin. Ordinary people's voices are never heard, they aren't represented, all that is represented is the spinners from Oxbridge on the BBC wrnging their hands about polar bears. The real world is totally dfferent but never mentioned.

Suzanne Moore does not like how it really is, but she understands it and does not ignore it.

"There is forever an England where Ukip is nothing more than a joke on Twitter, the Daily Mail is something that no one you know actually reads, where Christianity is a misguided thought process, where everyone understands that taxation is absolutely the right price to pay for the things we value. Maybe you live in that England. Lucky you. I visit it, of course, but I don't come from it. My family were that not-so-rare breed, working-class Tories. Turkeys not only vote for Christmas, I soon realised, they enthusiastically talk about the various ways in which they will be stuffed, every day of the week.

So I was very young when I understood that simply telling people that they are stupid and wrong does not make them suddenly embrace socialism. Nor is everything easily divisible into right and left. Right now it is "ordinary people" versus the "trendy metropolitan elite" (people who live in London and enjoy a wide range of dining opportunities)."

You keep on making the same tired argument, as if 99% of people on here don't already agree with you that they're tired of the establishment parties.

You then repeatedly make the logical fallacy that anyone who criticises what a nasty, bigoted, ignorant and reactionary party UKIP is must either: enthusiastically support the establishment parties, or not understand the public hatred towards them.

People criticise UKIP because they're UKIP.

We know the mainstream parties are crap. We get it. We don't need you to keep telling us this.

The problem is that UKIP, far from solving the countries problems of poverty, the cost-of-living crisis, inequality, corruption, broken political promises, MPs on the make, etc. etc. would make the country a far worse place in which to live.

I can see that petty fascism appeals to your right-wing populist instincts, claig, but bigotry and racism is not the answer. It only serves to deflect attention away from the elites you so despise.

'You keep on making the same tired argument, as if 99% of people on here don't already agree with you that they're tired of the establishment parties.'

It is because many people don't really understand what is going on. They think that the millions of people who now view UKIP as Britain's most favourable party are "racists". They aren't. Suzanne Moore has understood it and that is so rare for someone writing for the Guardian, where they usually do not understand what the people really think. She gets it. It is a revolution of spirit and mind. People have tuned out, they have had enough of being patronised and spun by spinners who don't really care about them.

You can listen to BBC Question Time and BBC Any Questions and you will hear all the Oxbridge Baronnesses and Lords and luvvies trying to understand what is happening and failing dismally. The spinners don't understand it, they don't get it. They should read Suzanne Moore carefully.

We are in such a bad situation because of these spinners in the establishment who have dominated all the airwaves and ignored ordinary people. That is why all these attacks on UKIP and Farage fall on deaf ears. People are past caring. They have had enough of the spinners and no longer believe what they say.

This is a political crisis for the establishment. They are "out of touch" and the rise of UKIP is the mirror that displays it to their view. Can the establishment change? Of course they can't, because of their arrogance.

We are living in interesting times and change is taking place before our eyes.

The Tories were swept out of power in 1997 for one reason - arrogance, and when Portillo was defeated, there were cheers even among former Tories because at that time, he embodied "arrogance".

The economy was good, the Tories weren't messing things up terribly at that time, but the people had had enough of their arrogance

Now we are in a similar time, where the people have had enough of the spin and arrogance of the elite again, and they won't vote Labour because they are exactly the same. That is why people have turned to UKIP.

Yes, dear.

You can vote for another party because UKIP. There are many options for you if you want a protest vote:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_the_United_Kingdom

And UKIP is a nasty and racist party run by bigots and racists.

If you want to make the UK a better place for people to live, don't for hate.

Sorry, made a mistake:

You can vote for another party because* UKIP.

*besides.

Join Left Unity:

leftunity.org/about/

The welfare state is being torn apart by Tory austerity. The NHS, benefits, the post, the fire service – nothing has been safe from their axe.

The Lib Dems have been the Tories’ coalition stooges. And all the main parties have fuelled the rise of UKIP by trying to pin the blame on migrants.

Labour, who should be standing up against all this, have failed again and again to do so. They have even joined in with attacking the poorest, instead of the real culprits: the rich and the bankers who blew up the economy.

That is why the Left Unity party exists. Founded in November 2013, Left Unity is growing fast – it already has over 1,900 members and branches across the country.

This is a new kind of party, with feminism, socialism and environmentalism at its heart. It’s a party that supports the campaigns and struggles of ordinary people, for public services, for equality, and for real democracy.

We say no one should have to choose between heating and eating, no one should have to pay for their healthcare or education – and everyone should have a roof over their head. It’s that simple.

ttosca, what you don't understand is that people really do want change. They are not going to vote Left Unity or Green or Socialist Alliance or whatever they are called, because none of those parties have any chance of shaking the establshment spinners and unseating them and none of those parties are listening to the public in their millions and addressing their concerns. Those parties do not get the votes of the masses because they do not represent the masses.

The party that the public has chosen to shake the establishment, and as Farage says "cause an earthquake" is UKIP, and it is a party that most of them never even considered voting for only two years ago. That shows the extent of the revolution and the extent of the divide between elites and the public.

Suzanne Moore has yet again hit the nail on the head.

"Politicans talk about ordinary people, but never to them. Into this vacuum steps the likes of Ukip. The left must take note"

That is true of the establishment cronies but also of the smaller fringe parties.

"The reality is, of course, not so simple. While everyone claims to speak for "ordinary people", many of our institutions do not speak to them. The right is honest about its condescension – we are governed by those born to rule – but the certainties of a leftwing mindset can be equally patronising. How often do I hear the opinion that if someone votes for a different party, or reads a different newspaper or doesn't like a particular comedian, then they are basically a terrible person? Actually, quite a lot."

The people have had enough of those who think they are "born to rule" and they have had enough of condescension from Labour and their leftwing comedians mocking the newspapers they read and the beliefs they have too. The cronies are unable to understand what the people think.

In 1997, the public voted Labour, and in part they did so to topple the likes of Portillo.

But they will not vote Labour this time, because Labour are exactly the same, the same type of spinners from the same universities and the same charities and thinktanks and millionaire houses. The public will not vote to topple Tweedledee by voting for Tweedledum. That is why Labour will not make it into power this time.

Labour are talking about having candidates from their "great" families - a Kinnock, a Blair, a Straw and a Prescott.

Will the public take to them with open arms? Will they say now we have got real change at last or will they blow a communal raspberry at those who take the public for granted?

How the spinners take the public for granted and think that they will swallow whatever they are given!

"Politicans talk about ordinary people, but never to them. Into this vacuum steps the likes of Ukip. The left must take note"

This all day long.

UKIP with all their faults are different to the elite class governing us right now and the option of being represented even if that representation means that either of the big two parties adopt SOME UKIP policies is a big draw.

The 'Underclass' is under represented and are totally disenfranchised from the political decision making in this country....that has to come to an end and the demonisation of the poor has to be addressed and brought to book.

The poor and underprivileged have gotten to a point of not caring how this situation is resolved as long as the swing of power against need is rectified.

Shouting racist every time UKIP gets mentioned isn't going to stop UKIP having a voice it's going to strengthen the resolve of their supporters.

Just to clarify I will be voting UKIP and do not need someone with a political degree to 'Talk me down' or educate me as to why I have to put up with decades more of the WM Oxbridge gravy train which totally ignore the poor and underprivileged.

Caruthers - I oppose UKIP because I think they will lead to you being LESS represented, since they do absolutely nothing in the European Parliament, it really pisses me off watching them hang out in the Brussels pubs and making speeches, with a lovely salary, but not actually doing things in the parliament that would change policies - and they could. all the while criticising other people for their salaries etc.

I get why they seem attractive, to thumb your finger at Cameron et al but if you don't want to vote establishment there are other choices, eg The Greens for all their sins do. A lot of work. And there are others.

Also even thought I don't think that a lot of people who vote for UKIP are racist, the reality remains that it is an extreme right party. Or populist right party.

It is not extreme right, it is populist right, and it is of course popular, with many people now supporting it all over the country. Those people aren't extremists, they have just had enough of the spinners who have let them down and ignored them and now they want change.

Cameron used to insult UKIP by calling them fruitcakes, loons and racists, but he has had to cut that out as his teenage spinners have told him that huge numbers of people support UKIP and that he was insulting huge numbers of people and just driving them further away from his "out of touch" attitudes and policies.

The more opponents label ordinary voters as "extremist" or the party they choose to vote for as "extremist", the more ordinary people will believe that the opponents are "out of touch" with the public and deserve to be removed from office by the popular vote.

MG300 We will work to achieve greater equity between the UK and non-Western countries. In step with this, we will progressively reduce UK immigration controls.

This is from the green party manifesto.

And this is why I will not vote for them.

Reducing immigration controls is not a good thing.

The definition of populist right is extreme right Craig. It's the same thing, check out what I posted earlier in the thread, UKIP fits the profile of what are described as extreme right groups as a general term. Note that I am not saying fascist...

I see what the UKIP does here in brux and it makes me despair ( I actually have to watch the committee and plenary sessions boringly enough ) - if they are not denying climate change, they are saying bad shit about women and doing point scoring by basically insulting everyone. These are the elected MEPs, not the random UKIP counsellor/ members etc.

So much of their manifesto is bigoted I personally would not vote for them even if I strongly agreed with one major issue...

Populist is not extreme, populist is what appeals to the majority of people.

Populist means lower taxes, more common sense, less elites and more policies geared to ordinary people. Fewer rules and regulations that cramp ordinary people's freedoms and lifestyles and that are avoided and ignored by the elites who impose them. More local consultation on issues like windfarms and fewer taxpayer subsidies to elitist aristocrats, toffs and bigwigs paid for by ordinary hardworking people. More freedom for people, less nanny state and control by bureaucrats, bigwigs and servants of the elites. Fewer expenses for elite scroungers paid for by ordinary working people and more representation for and by ordinary people. A reduction in nanny state minimum alcohol pricing levels for ordinary people while the elite fill their cellars with expensive wines and put their money in tax-exempt "charities" and foundations. No more £100 fines for old-ge pensioners who leave their bin lids open or who put their bins out on the "wrong day", while fat cats squeeze expenses out of the pockets of the people and award themselves golden hellos and golden goodbyes.

There is nothing extreme about populist. It is the elites who pretend that it is extreme in order to maintain their privilege and position of lording it over ordinary people while being paid lavish expenses and bonuses out of the pockets of ordinary people while ignoring all of their wishes with the justification that the elite knows best.

In fact populist is the diametric opposite of elitist, it is about the people having power rather than the elites, and therefore it is about democracy and representation, and of course that is what UKIP argues for over independence and sovereignty of the British people over the EU elite technocracy and kleptocracy which has created a democratic deficit where ordinary people's voices are ignored by the high and mighty and great and good.

No one has asked the European people if they want sanctions on Russia or even a potential conflict with Russia which it looks like some of the real elite are possibly angling for. The people won't be asked, they will be told.

You're an idiot, and you need a political education.

The Nazis were a populist party. It's not about 'power to the people'. Populism is about using rhetoric to appeal to the masses, regardless of whether the real political agenda has the best interest of the public or country at heart.

UKIP using populist rhetoric against immigrants and anything perceived to be european or 'foreign' is populist, but also stupid and harmful.

England, like the rest of the world, is an immigrant country - only more so.

Immigrants are good for the UK economy, and greatly culturally enrich the nation.

ttosca great debating skills you have there.

Shouting racist every time UKIP gets mentioned isn't going to stop UKIP having a voice it's going to strengthen the resolve of their supporters.

People shout 'racist' as UKIP members because UKIP is a racist party. It's not a made-up thing, you know.

If you vote UKIP because you want to give the middle-finger to the establishment, you should and will be reminded that you're also voting for a racist and bigoted party. A party of hate.

Just to clarify I will be voting UKIP and do not need someone with a political degree to 'Talk me down' or educate me as to why I have to put up with decades more of the WM Oxbridge gravy train which totally ignore the poor and underprivileged.

You're making the same mistake as claig. The people telling you note to vote UKIP are telling you this because they are a bunch of racist, bigoted, right-wing populist cunts. They're not telling you this out of support for the three main parties.

You will find no arguments from anyone here- except maybe the few tribalists and propagandists like Isitmebut- that the establishment parties need a damn good thrashing and radical change needs to happen within the political system.

If you want to do that, then vote for another non-mainstream but not racist party. There is a large choice to choose from. You could vote for the Monster Raving Looney party - or abstain altogether.

UKIP has no chance of getting in to power since we don't have proportional representation in this country.

'UKIP using populist rhetoric against immigrants and anything perceived to be european or 'foreign' is populist, but also stupid and harmful.'

It is the hypocritical media, servants of the elite, who have been anti-foreign as they had a go at Farage for employing his German born wife who has resided here for decades rather than a UK citizen. It is that same manipulated media that has had a go at UKIP for using an Irish actor in their election broadcast rather than an English actor. The media has shown how few principles it has and how they will use anything to serve their masters in trying to smear UKIP and turn the people off the people's party.

UKIP believe that EU open door immigration is wrong, they aren't saying so just in order to win votes, they actually believe it, and the establishment knows it cannot justify an open door EU immigration and that it has to follow an open door EU immigration policy because their masters want it, so they resort to trying to smear UKIP.

But it is not working. Ordinary people are wise to it. They have seen New Labour lies for 13 years and are wise to lies. They no longer believe them.