Oscar Pistorius Trial Part 5

[Roussette]

Time for a new thread - Part 4 nearly full

Weren't there something like 1650 what's app messages? And these were the only four problematic ones?

Yes there were around 1700 messages between them and 4 were problematic, they obviously pulled out the 4, in fact 1 of those 4 was about the gun incident in the Tasha's restaurant.

Here are the messages and dates they were exchanged -

January 11, 2013:

OP to RS: Angel please don't say a thing to anyone. Darren told everyone it was his fault. I can't afford for that to come out. The guys promised not to say a thing.

RS to OP: I have no idea what you talking about :)

RS to OP: But thank u for telling me I appreciate it x

January 19, 2013:

RS to OP: Baba

OP to RS: Yes.

RS to OP: There are a lot of things that could make us both feel like s**t.

RS to OP: I'm just very honest

RS to OP: I won't always think before I say something just appreciate that I'm not a liar.

OP to RS: I know. It was just when you got back from tropica you made it sound like you had only smoked weed once and then last night that came out. I don't know how many times you took or if you took other things or what you did when you were on them

RS to OP: I'm sorry if it upset you it wasn't my intention

OP to RS: I do appreciate it. could never be with someone that was

RS to OP: Me neither

RS to OP: It's like I see rabbit things in your house and when we go places you take pics of them everywhere. For me I'm thinking who do you have that connection with? And the same things will play on your mind. At the end of the day this is now not then

RS to OP: I wasn't a stripper or a ho

RS to OP: I certainly have never been a prude and I've had fun but all innocent and without harmful repercussions.

January 27, 2013:

RS to OP: I'm not 100% sure why I'm sitting down to type you a message first but perhaps it says a lot about what's going on here. Today was one of my best friend's engagements and I wanted to stay longer I was enjoying myself but it's over now. You have picked on me incessantly since you got back from CT (Cape Town) and I understand that you are sick but it's nasty. Yesterday wasn't nice for either of us but we managed to pull through and communicate well enough to show our care for each other is greater than the drama that attacked us. I was not flirting with anyone today. I feel sick that you suggested that and that you made a scene at the table and made us leave early. I'm terribly disappointed in how the day ended and how you left me. We are living in a double standard relationship where you can be mad about how I deal with stuff when you are very quick to act cold and offish when you're unhappy. Every 5 seconds I hear how you dated another chick. You really have dated a lot of people yet you get upset if I mention ONE funny story with a long term boyfriend. I do everything to make you happy and to not say anything to rock the boat with u. You do everything to throw tantrums in front of people. I have been upset by you for 2 days now. I'm so upset I left Darren's party early. SO upset. I can't get that day back. I'm scared of you sometimes and how u snap at me and of how you will react to me. You make me happy 90% of the time and I think we are amazing together but I am not some other bitch you may know trying to kill your vibe. I am the girl who let go with u even when I was scared out of my mind to. I'm the girl who fell in love with u and wanted to tell u this weekend. But I'm also the girl that gets sidestepped when you are in a s*t mood. When I feel you think u have me so why try anymore. I get snapped at and told my accents and voices are annoying. I touch your neck to show u I care and you tell me to stop. Stop chewing gum. Do this don't do that. You don't want to hear stuff cut me off. Your endorsements your reputation your impression of someone innocent blown out of proportion and f**ed up a special day for me. I'm sorry if you truly felt I was hitting on my friend Sams husband and I'm sorry that u think that little of me. From the outside I think it looks like we are a struggle and maybe that's what we are. I just want to love and be loved. Be happy and make someone SO happy. Maybe we can't do that for each other. Cos right now I know u aren't happy and I am certainly very unhappy and sad.

OP to RS: Please let me know when I can call you

RS to OP: I'm here

OP to RS: I want to talk to you. I want to sort this out. I don't want to have anything less than amazing for you and I. I am sorry for the things I say without thinking and for taking offense to some of your actions. The fact that I'm tired and sick isn't an excuse. I was upset that you just left me after we got food to go talk to a guy and I was standing right behind you watching you touch his arm and ignore me. And when I spoke up you introduced me which you could've done but when I left you just kept on chatting to him when clearly I was upset. I asked Martin to put on that Kendrick Lamar album in the car and don't know it. Granted that it was a s**t song but you should've just lent forward and whispered in my ear to change it seeing as I had to drive to pick up your friend. I was 30 minutes late and I know you don't like it when I drive fast but then you could've asked Gina to drive herself so that we wouldn't have to. When we left I was starving the only good I had had was a tiny wrap and everyone was leaving for lunch. I'm sorry I wanted to go but I was hungry and upset and although you knew it, it wasn't like you came to chat to me when I left the table. I was upset when I left you cos I thought you were coming to me. I'm sorry I asked you to stop tapping my neck yesterday, I know you were just trying to show me love. I had a mad headache and should've just spoken to you softly. In sorry for asking you not to put on an accent last night pretty much the same and didn't have the energy.

February 8, 2013

RS to OP: I like to believe that I made you proud when I attend these kind of functions with you. I present myself well and can converse with others while you are off busy chatting to fans and friends. I also knew people there tonight and whilst you were having one or two pics taken I was saying goodbye to the people in my industry and Fitz wanted a photo with me. I was just being cordial by saying goodbye whilst you were busy. I completely understood your desperation to leave and thought I would be helping you by getting to the exit before you because I can't rush on the heels I was wearing. I thought it would make a difference in us getting out without you getting harassed anymore. I didn't think you would criticize me for doing that especially not so loudly so that others could hear. I might joke around and be all Tom boyish at times but I regard myself as a lady and I didn't feel like one tonight after the way you treated me when we left. I'm a person too and I appreciate that you invited me out tonight and I realize that you get harassed but I am trying my best to make you happy and I feel as though you sometimes never are, no matter the effort I put in. I can't be attacked by outsiders for dating you and be attacked by you -- the one person I deserve protection from.

jackyDanny you are right I have no experience of DV. I do have experience as a lawyer though and on a purely legal basis I do not believe 4 out of 1700 messages is enough for the State in this case to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the relationship was such that OP would deliberately shoot RS in cold blood

.... whilst the tone and content of those messages for me was not very happy or balanced, I did also wonder (I think on thread 4) whether she was calling him on his need to be 'in charge' ie his previous girlfriends seemed to be younger and maybe he was used to being 'in charge', but here was a woman who was older, more mature, could look after herself, and maybe she was saying they were equals, he didn't need to be 'in charge'.

There's definitely a sense of public perception in a couple of those messages above, and I can see why. If she was partaking in recreational drugs it would not have reflected well on him, and to be fair, you could understand the 'by association' concern that the media would run with.

I am a fence sitter. I can believe the intruder story (although I have questions) and equally I can believe the fit of rage story (although I have questions). The judge will decide.

those messages actually show OP in a better light than i thought

the pathologist thing isn't a red herring
he will have agreed with the other pathologist re when Ms Steenkamp last ate - approximately - before they left the autopsy - this is hugely difficult for OP
That is why he is no longer available

Those messages make them both sound like hard work, navel gazing types.

The evidence of Ms Burger, Mr Johnston, Dr Stipp, Ms Van der Merwe and the security guard Baba is devastating to OP

The first 4 gave accounts of a woman screaming. Ms van der Merwe gave an account of a prolonged argument and then screaming
Broadly their evidence matched and they were not swayed and did not try to change or fit their evidence when questioned. They were strong, definite witnesses and their evidence is very hard to discount.

Baba's evidence was terribly damaging. He also questioned why OP did not use his panic button or call security?

He also detailed how secure the estate was and the types of measures employed and it was very very safe by any standards.

I would recommend that you read or listen to their evidence again. It is incredibly hard to ignore.

There was, in the past, a fair bit of smearing in the press about OP and his cocaine use
I don't think that any weight can be given to either Ms Steenkamp smoking weed or Pistorius using coke
Not a part of the case in hand

Ronald you're falling into stating your opinion as fact - pathologist officially not appearing due to scheduling issues , whatever conclusion you draw from that, it isn't a fact that he agrees with the prosecution.

Maybe we should think about using think or believe if it's something we've inferred? Might be easier as this thread is so fast?

Babas evidence was that terribly damaging that he was so adamant he called OP first and then OP called him back, he repeated it many times when questioned, then came the blow that in fact the phone records proved OP called him first......

I agree with Nerf.

Why do the neighbours get called Mr, Mrs, Dr and the security guard just gets called by his surname?

Interestingly Sam Taylor said that Pistorius had two phones
A work phone and a personal phone

She said he always had his personal phone with him but often left his work phone downstairs, on his charger, in the kitchen.

Maybe the work phone was always downstairs and OP didn't put the phone in his pocket before carrying Ms Steenkamp downstairs
Less incriminating for him - putting his mobile on to charge after shooting and killing someone didn't sit that well with my perception of his innocence.

Baba was the name given and I assumed it to be Zulu tbh
Zulu staff are all I have experience of and they aren't usually called nor address each other as Mr ime
It was not my intention to denigrate, far from it

I think that the fact that the pathologist, in a fanfare and at great expense, was hired to attend the autopsy
Somehow that pathologist is now no longer being called nor is his first hand evidence being used
Doesn't seem to be an inference too far for me to state that there is something the defence team don't want him to testify about as it doesn't suit their version

A scheduling clash would be sorted so that he could give evidence. The entire trial has been halted to allow lawyers to work on other cases

I don't think that who called whom first was particularly damaging to mr Baba's evidence
He was very clear that they were aware that something wasn't right at OP's house as they had received calls from Stipp and another neighbour
Whether OP called crying and Baba called him back or the other way around makes little odds imo
I can see no reason why all of these witnesses would lie
They seem very credible and if anything reluctant

I think I was probably wrong regarding Baba's name and will call him Mr from now on
Thanks for pointing that out

Ronald I understand that but Mr Baba was adamant that OP did not call him first, he was also adamant that OP said everything is fine, they proved Mr Baba was in fact wrong and OP did call him first, what I'm saying is, he was so adamant about the way the phone calls happened and then about what OP said to him, how can you be sure when in fact he was wrong, as phone records show.

Sorry I thought Baba was his first name.

No problem, I wasn't being accusatory, just something I'd wondered about. Thinking about it, I suppose the Stipps need to be distinguished from each other. The papers seem to say Pieter Baba, Roger Dixon, Oscar Pistorius, but I suppose we also day Dixon/ Pistorius, so maybe it doesn't really matter

Surely if Mr.Stipp and another neighbour called Mr. Baba the security guard they must have heard shouting/screaming or something? Otherwise why would they call? Doesn't that corroberate their evidence?

corroborate. hmmm not sure which, you know what I mean!

Rousette Dr Stipp first called Mr Baba at 03.27am because he woke to gunshots, he then got up out of bed and went to the balcony where he said he heard 2-3 screams he described the screams as severe, fearful and emotional.

What happened to the other neighbour?
The one with all the lights on that made a 40 sec call to security after the shooting
I've said it before but that might have been me
This has really made me Q how selfish I am. Def not a Dr Stipp.

Thanks for the info on this thread - all v interesting.