Oscar Pistorius Trial Part 5

[Roussette]

Time for a new thread - Part 4 nearly full

Ronald - what bad thing during his meeting? I have no idea what this means.

Incidentally, bearing in mind that OP clearly knew the theory about what he should or shouldn't do, if he's lying why the heck didn't he just say that he shouted "get the F* out of my house, I am armed, get out"?

We will find out so much more at the summing up ronald. I am interested in the events of the day leading up to the killing as well as on the other damage in the bedroom/bathroom. The damaged bathpanel, damaged metal plate in the bathroom and the damage to the bathroom door, as well as the other jeans outside. The stomach contents are also yet to be explained.

I didn't realise that Roux asked OP if it was true he said they had eaten between 8&9 to which OP agreed. Naughty Roux!!! We all know OP claimed they had eaten at 7 after he spent an hour faffing about upstairs. It still doesn't come close to explaining the contents of RS's stomach though. (I have learned that from DS forum and will check it tomorrow.)
I'm sure much will come out in the closing statements that hasn't been covered.

In text message Ms Steenkamp was very conciliatory to OP in the day following the results of a meeting he had
I was wondering if we knew what the problem was, it sounded serious

She had been to his house earlier in the day, she must have had access

Whether OP shouted get out I'm armed or anything else
He had no intention to let anyone leave.
The toilet window is two stories up and clearly wasn't the point of entry
The only exit was via a window down two stories to the hard earth or via the door
A noise made Pistorius pull the trigger 4 times at waist level
He intended to kill or he simply wouldn't have done so.

If it was an intruder the intruder had no exit, any noise made equalled death
Again given his very real fear that they had entered via a ladder...he NEVER checked for the ladder

No he was intent on murder!

RS didn't want to spend the night there either but did so at his request!

It was a financial meeting ronald

Louise perhaps OP didn't lie about what he shouted because he thought witnesses could have heard it.

Hi - just found this thread. Has anyone here mentioned the smoking gun of Valentine's Day as reason for the argument?

1. much has been made of Reeva's emotionally revealing V Day card, and the sweet gift (sentimental rather than something showy or expensive, the sort of gift they'd look back on after a decade of marriage w fond memories. Implies a hope for long-term relationship). BTW, if he gets off because SHE wrote a loving card, every wife beater in the world gets a get out of jail free card (women's optimism and the Prince Charming construct/the hope a horrid man will suddenly change and be nice are responsible for soo much unhappiness)
2. NO ONE has mentioned that OP got her neither a card nor a gift. I am not saying that lack of a v day gift means you're a potential murderer, but obv they did NOT have an agreement not to exchange cards or gifts (as OP has implied) or she wouldn't have done so. So perhaps she gave him the card/ gift earlier in evening and he had nothing in return, nor a dinner res for next day. That stings and could have led her to question why she's working so hard for this relationship that's already showing so many cracks. So this argument could have simmered for hours, rather than being some immediately volatile thing that came up at 2 am (when one witness claimed to hear indistinct arguing/ woman's voice). Domestic violence tends to increase around pressure points such as V Day. Hell, I'm in a v happy marriage but have had two v bad V Days based on my disappointment w DH's efforts.
3. Reeva actually tweeted something about 'what are you planning for your true love this V day' (not direct quote). Seems to imply she had hopes of something special.
4. OP did not invite her over that night. SHE wanted to come, he basically said "if you want" but didn't seem thrilled. Seems he 'wasn't that into her' in this instance (you can still be jealous, manipulative and petty, even if you aren't madly in love, ESP if you're a controlling jerk).
5. she cooked dinner for him on V Day eve. He was upstairs lying in bed (was that the time of porn download?) to me, they seem to be in v different places about this evening, V day and their relationship. Will write additional posts about other aspects, just been stunned that his defence is using her card and her words to get him off, while completely silencing her in every other instance - Reeva didn't speak or make a sound (when walking/sneaking off to loo a mere 4-6 inches behind him as he faffed w fan(s), Reeva wasn't talking at 2am when neighbour heard her, Reeva didn't reply to his "soft voice" to get down and phone police, Reeva didn't speak when he was screaming at her to phone police as he approached toilet, Reeva didn't scream when shot in hip or arm. Rendered her mute (and invisible) all evening then let OP HIMSELF steal her voice and read her card to the court. Shameful IMHO.

Toast (can I call you toast?)

Hmm yes I tend to agree with much of what you say although....

RS had planned to leave his house at 6pm and had suggested he spend time with family as she wouldn't be there to comfort him.
She was going to be giving or attending a seminar on Dv in J'burg on the 14th - he wanted to take her and pick up one of 2 bracelets he had ordered for her. Maybe they were discussing DV in the context of her feeling scared of him at times?
We don't know if he needed comfort because he had a difficult finance meeting or he was upset about her meeting with an ex on the 13th. (He called her twice during this 20 minutes). I think the relationship mattered to him as they had begun to be seen as SA's 'golden couple', which would have been good for brand Oscar?

We will never know what caused the argument heard by Mrs Berger, but it would certainly fit with RS stomach contents in establishing at least she was awake and being vocal about something!

I'm sure the perceived wisdom about this will come in the closing statements and judges summing up!

Hi YNK. Yes I thought they would call the ex to the stand to testify about all the calls during the lunch. It's off to ring twice when you know your bf/gf is seeing someone you're uncomfortable about. You just have to take the high road and hope for the best. You can't control someone's life/ choices.

Q: Why didn't Nel ask OP how/what are the chances he forgot his mobile phone's password immediately after police took it? If that's the one he made the calls from, he knew the code. Or was it the second phone he claimed he forgot the code to? Def smells suspicious, don't you think?

Sorry, It was Estelle Van der Merwe who heard the womans voice shouting. (ooops).

Toast the issue of his phone/phones has not yet been clarified Quite a lot has been left hanging , maybe because there is nothing to be gained in cross examination, and no doubt will be brought up in the closing statements or in CE of future defence witnesses.
He used one of his own phones to make the calls. It was RS's phone he said he didn't have the code for.

Hi YNK. Sorry, I read that they had to take one of his phones to California because he said he couldn't remember the code. (Or was it to beg what's app people to gain access to deleted msgs - must be a bugger to the app's usp that texts 'disappear') They were there a week before the trial, at Apple, trying to get into the phone (if news reports are accurate). Surely goes to credibility (along w pleading not guilty to the other gun charges) in which case one doesn't have to accept any of his story to be true - such as getting fans from balcony as originally stated. I suspect he said that originally as it clearly placed him outside of room, so meant he wouldn't see r go to loo. But couldn't get my head around what fans were doing on balcony. Would you have them outside during day if you sat out there? That balcony is small - there's a larger one off the upstairs sitting room complete w hot tub, which seems a more likely place to sit outdoors. Now he says the fans were hardly on balcony at all, which places him firmly inside room at all times. So wouldn't he have heard Reeva, even if she bounced across bed to exit from left side? Also why so itchy to get fans on. Wasn't it fairly cool night (they were sleeping under the duvet - he testified now that he saw her legs under the duvet when he got out of bed).

Also I think the whole explanation of why he was on left side was just to counter the fact he couldn't have gotten the gun from under that side of the bed without noticing she wasn't in bed. And couldn't have gotten gun from under right side without walking past entire bed (and noting she wasn't cowering by the curtain or in fact anywhere in the room. But if we accept he is lying, we don't have to wonder about sides of bed, fans, curtains still being open, etc not making sense. Of course it doesn't make sense. He constructed a story which is contradicted by evidence and photos of scene. I also am suspicious about black bin bags and rope and his determination to use Ms Stander's car. And surely the Net Care operator would remember this call the next day when the news spread. We're they not able to track this person to get a recording or at least witness statement about how OP described injuries? Cannot imagine that any medical helpline would suggest moving such a victim.

Hi, Toast. I have mentioned the duvet thing before. It was such a hot night that they needed the fans and yet he claims they slept under the duvet. Just another inconsistency to add to all the others in his made-up tale.

My understanding is this....

3.17am - last bang heard by 6 witnesses, followed by a an shouting help/man screaming.
3.19am-until 3.22am -records of OP on phone.
3.?? Reeva expiring on stairs/ downstairs

Pathologist says Reeva would have taken only a couple of breaths after the shot to head and thereafter arterial spurts would end when oxygen level fails to maintain BP and heart stopping would closely follow.

How can OP maintain he not only ran down to open front door/disable the alarm, run around faffing about on balcony, brake down the door and struggle to pick up Reeva before she finally died on the stair/downstairs hallway?

A space of about 5 seconds for all of this?
I think this demonstrates a fatal flaw in OP's account, along with the stomach contents and the duvet on the floor/positioning of the fans.

Can anyone convince me otherwise please?

Ok just re read that and I see it would have been a little bit more than 5 seconds, but still not enough for all the actions OP claims to have taken.

Hi YNK. I def think he already had cricket bat in bathroom if not already had done couple of knocks on it. I always felt he could see her a bit to get 3 shots hitting her. I guess her screams also gave a good indication of where she was. Having cricket bat already there takes out one of the journeys back to bedroom. But his prosthetic legs - were they somehow not on right side of bed? I never understood blood on duvet. Unless he did actually run back there to put legs on AFTER he'd broken into toilet door (so had at least some blood on him). Taking reeva downstairs wouldn't get blood spurted that far into bedroom, would it? ( practically at the sliding door). But on his testimony he wouldn't have blood on him yet when got legs as says he put legs on to break down door so wasn't yet inside. Is that right? Doesn't he say he ran onto balcony after suspecting it was r inside but before breaking down door? Sounds like lots of trips back and forth. And now he testified that when he first broke down door he kind of paused over her body which seems odd and add seen more seconds ticking away. Def want to hear stander s testimony. He must live close by if he and daughter got dressed and there before Stipp

Ok 3.28am - standers call to netcare for ambulance at Dr Stipps suggestion. Reeva dead at this time.

So 3.17am until 3.28am, a period of 9 seconds for all the actions claimed by OP.

From where I'm standing OP's story is impossible!

I think anyone would call net care and ask for ambulance first call. Not a friend. And apparently had to look up stander's nbr so that takes even more time. W her injuries every second counts.

Ambulance could be on way then call nearby friend to help you.

Toast - The prosthetics were on the left of bed to air, cricket bat at the door, duvet on the bed, large fan on floor (where the duvet is pictured).....according to OP. He also claimed in was still pitch dark in the bedroom.

No sorry Oscar, I'm still not buying it! 9 flipping seconds??? He may be fast on the track but he must have the speed of light around his house if he is to be believed!

Another thing: did it seem odd that OP talks about not being able to life Reeva? He says he had on prosthetics when he broke down door. He's an Olympic athlete w huge upper body strength (and later carried her down stairs) so why the struggle - unless he broke down door on stumps so couldn't lift her. This would explain. Blood on duvet of he went to right side of bed to get pr legs on his saying he struggled to lift her reminded me of Utah's Dr Martin MacNeill, who killed his wife and claimed he couldn't lift her out of bath (really just wanted a witness to see her body in bath)

Am I right in thinking the first reported bang was roughly 15 minutes before the last bang? I'm still trying to get the timeline in my head!

He claims to have been shooting from his stumps, Toast. Also claims it takes 30secs to put on p legs and in addition he felt around in the dark both for his socks and to check if Reeva was behind the curtain, shout 3 times for help (and I assume to locate and pick up his phone) and get the bat.

Maybe I'm overthinking all this (or maybe OP's version is a crock!)
I'm getting a headache now so going out to walk the dogs!

... 3.17 to 3.28 = 11 minutes.....

I think we've gone from using the evidence and statements to follow the case to doubting and disputing it, and it's just turning into a bit of an anti OP thread rather than following a case.