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Oscar Pistorius Trial Part 5

999 replies

Roussette · 18/04/2014 17:46

Time for a new thread - Part 4 nearly full

OP posts:
YNK · 26/04/2014 17:53

Phew, thanks Jill. My head did clear a bit while I was up the river!
Obviously I need to give my wee heid a wobble!

YNK · 26/04/2014 17:56

I still think the doubts have been cast by the evidence, but we will see after the 5th, nerf.

BurnedTheToastAgain · 26/04/2014 18:43

I know he was shooting from stumps but says he put on pr legs before successfully breaking door. But if he actually broke door on stumps it may imply the Bat was already in bathroom - did he chase her w it or strike door at all before the shots? And if he broke down door on stumps (therefore couldn't lift Reeva) it shatters his version that he ran to get legs before breaking down door.

YNK · 26/04/2014 19:05

Nel will say if it doesn't make sense it follows be that OP's story is a lie, Toast. I have been round it until my head hurts and still can't see it!
He will have to hope Roux can convince the judge!

RoadKillBunny · 26/04/2014 20:16

Hello all.
Thanks for the link to the testimony I asked about, going to go listen in a few minutes.

Over the duvet I just wanted to clear up a few things, there is so much information that has now been presented it can get confusing and I am seeing some confusion in the thread.

In the crime scene photographers testimony when going through the prints the duvet was seen in two different positions. The first was the one with the jeans, inside out just on top of a tiny part of it. The second picture showed the duvet straightened out but still over the same bit of floor. The photographer explained (and the meta data agreed) that the first picture was how it was when he first arrived on the scene and then the second picture was taken after the scene had been photographed completely once, the duvet had been opened up for the second round of photography that was to look at items in more depth but not exactly as they where found. While it seems a little pointless to me, I would expect that once everything has been photographed from all angles as it was items would be bagged and taken to the lab for a more in depth look and photographs but maybe I have seen too much TV, maybe that's not how the SAP do things, who knows but it isn't all that outrageous to me, the scene had been photographed extensively as it was found before the item was moved.
The same principle goes for the jeans, the meta data would show which pucture came first, inside out or not and it was the inside out just on top of the duvet that came first, so that is how they where when police arrived on sceene, from what I can tell this is something Roux doesn't dispute, when talking about the jeans and duvet both side have accepted that the first run of photos are the ones to be used when looking at how the scene was first found (although OP argues that things where moved he is claiming them where moved before ANY photos where taken, Riux has used the fact that things where moved after the first run of photos to hit the police credibility. The scene in the bathroom has more question marks due to conflicting testimony and meta data. It just shows how successful Roux has been in his efforts to discredit the police photography that the waters are so muddy here).
When blood evidence is used in relation to the duvet position and if it was moved we are talking about if the duvet was moved from the bed where OP claims it was to the position on the floor in the first run of photos.
The blood evidence is that there is an artirial spray (undisputed this comes from when OP carried Reeva through the bedroom) that lines up perfectly from the carpet and onto the duvet. If the duvet had been moved after Reeva was carried through it would have to be dumb luck or great time and effort to have managed to line up the blood evidence. It is not a continues line of blood that goes from carpet to duvet, it is an interrupted line typical for artirial spray but if you where to draw a line the two parts would line up. This has been difficult evidence for OP and he hasn't been able to explain it.

There are a few more points I wanted to comment on from what has been said on thread but my brain has currently left the building so will watch that testimony and come back to it.

StackALee · 26/04/2014 20:20

Wow really, 11 minutes? I always thought all this happened in just a couple of minutes. So what was he doing all tattime in between the shooting and the door breaking?

StackALee · 26/04/2014 20:24

Also, Nel spent a very long time in earlier questioning going through the way photos were take and the sequence they were taken in. The police photographer had several albums which dealt with different rooms/bits of evidence but were not always I perfect time sequence.

StackALee · 26/04/2014 20:30

Please can someone explain to me what the 'porn download is' has this been introduced as actual evidence in court or isn't just pointless speculation again?

RonaldMcDonald · 26/04/2014 20:39

I think there are issues around timeline also

if as suggested by OPs team the shooting occurred when everyone heard the first bangs then I fail to see how any arterial blood was seen at all outside of the toilet.
The amount of time it would have taken OP to search for Ms Steenkamp call for help and then eventually breakdown the door would have unfortunately seen her dead for any number of minutes

JillJ72 · 26/04/2014 22:54

Porn download - referenced in court, could have been a pop up. Not sure if has been discussed in detail.

JillJ72 · 26/04/2014 22:56

Stack I was just pointing out to the other posters that 3.17 to 3.28 = 11 mins, not 9 secs. I have not looked at any timelines, just pointed out that calc.

YNK · 26/04/2014 23:36

Ok jill just labour my embarrassment, why don't you!
Not only did I confuse minutes and seconds I can't count either! Blush

AmIthatSpringy · 26/04/2014 23:48

I see we're onto thread 5, so marking place for a week on Monday once the trial resumes

Would echo Nerf though, having a quick read over this thread feels like I've stumbled into a parallel universe.

Phone in toilet bowls (?), flowery use of adjectives and adverbs, and morphing of minutes into seconds Hmm

BTW, for those confused, Carice Stander is Johan Stander's daughter, not his wife. Doesn't make much difference in the grand scheme of things, but hey why not be accurate

AmIthatSpringy · 26/04/2014 23:56

I see a pp thought Pieter Baba's testimony was devastating to the defence.

When he made the comment about being so shocked he didn't even notice what the accused was wearing - well, as I said earlier, for me that was a Baldrick/Father Dougal moment

"Now Mr Baba, don't mention the clothes he was wearing...."

Made me think of "Captain Blackadder definitely did not eat that delicious plump breasted pigeon".

Very odd thing to say and I'm not hazarding a guess as to why he said it, but it was very odd

SabrinaMulhollandJjones · 27/04/2014 00:01

Don't mind me, just marking place

RonaldMcDonald · 27/04/2014 01:03

The Standers that arrived at OP's house were father and daughter, estate manager and lawyer daughter and then later Mrs Stander mother who hoped the entire matter didn't make it into the news
Given the shock they were all

MajesticWhine · 27/04/2014 07:45

Springy that is funny. I remember that blackadder episode.
That sounds to me simply like Pieter Baba had been practising his testimony and was worried his accuracy would be undermined because he didn't remember about the clothing.

UnderthePalms · 27/04/2014 11:43

Yes I think so. I don't think his comment was particularly strange or ridiculous.

YNK made an error about the seconds/minutes. I don't think she was trying to mislead anyone. She has admitted to it, so no need for the Hmm face

Hillwalker · 27/04/2014 12:11

A little more kindness and understanding all round? People make mistakes and some speculation is inevitable in this forum, surely.

AmIthatSpringy · 27/04/2014 12:33

Reading through some previous posts and having watched most of the testimonies over the last week, can someone clarify when the blood on the watch case was identified as Reeva's? I must have missed that.

upnorthfelinefan · 27/04/2014 13:57

Hi toast I can imagine it would be difficult for OP to lift RS off the floor without a bit of trouble.. He has a lot of upper body strength but he would be getting basically no muscle help from the prosthetic legs from his knees down to help push him up from a squatting type position or kneeling position. I can't begin to imagine what it would be like to lift someone off the floor without proper use of my legs.

YNK · 27/04/2014 18:05

I don't remember the blood anywhere in the house or on clothing having been formally identified Springy

YNK · 27/04/2014 18:07

Did the Stander daughter arrive with the bags and rope or did I imagine that?

BookABooSue · 27/04/2014 18:17

Are we sure it was 11 minutes? Did that come from the court statements?

11 minutes still seems like a short amount of time for everything that had to happen - ie OP go back to bedroom, look for Reeva, shout for help, get cricket bat, put on prosthetics, break down door, call people, go downstairs, carry Reeva downstairs . . .plus he tried to kick the door with his prosthetics didn't he? so that adds in another event to the timeline. Apologies if all these events aren't in exactly the right order. I haven't checked back testimonies. I just can't make the timeline work whatever order those events happened in.

Ronald that's an interesting point about the arterial blood but didn't Dr Stipp say Reeva was still alive when he entered the house and one of the experts testified to arterial spurt on the staircase/hallway so that would make the spurt in the bedroom possible. Or have I misunderstood what you said? (Sorry fuzzy-headed today!)

BookABooSue · 27/04/2014 18:21

YNK I think she got the bags and rope from the kitchen. I'd never heard of using plastic bags to stem bleeding but then I googled it and it seems fairly common advice to use bags if you don't have gloves available.