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Oscar Pistorius trial part 4

987 replies

Pennies · 15/04/2014 09:53

Here you go.

OP posts:
Outofnappies · 15/04/2014 10:27

Please forgive me if this is a dumb question - or has been answered already: So the prosecution want to establish that he knew it was Reeva and shot her deliberately, but if it is concluded that he did not know it was Reeva, is he then completely free? Does OP think he has done nothing wrong? Surely shooting at anyone through a door without establishing first who they are or warning them, means he is guilty of murder, regardless of who the poor victim was (no dispespect intended to Reeva or her poor family). Is it a crime in SA to shoot and kill a "perceived" intruder in these circumstances??

BeCool · 15/04/2014 10:29

Ah the Washing Post one - it doesn't show where the legs were though. It just shows OP sitting at the end of the bed putting them on?

I suspect the WP reconstruction, though useful, reflects the bail statement, not the court testimony.

I was hoping there was another, better reconstruction now online.

SauceForTheGander · 15/04/2014 10:29

Thank you for starting a new thread.

The person responsible is the person shooting. As a poster said previously (from SA) - yes there's crime but it's not the Wild West. There hadn't been a break in in 4 years at Silver Woods.

I find it interesting that OP was sneery about the doctor's abilities - a dig at the man who testified the lights were on.

LookingThroughTheFog · 15/04/2014 10:30

Yes, I see that now, BeCool. It was walking all the way around the bed for the gun that I'm thinking of.

FreeLikeABird · 15/04/2014 10:32

Also just seen this -

@barrybateman: #OscarTrial Nel: why would Reeva leave her sandals on the left if she knew she would sleep on the right? BB

FrontierPsychiatrist · 15/04/2014 10:33

Much has been made of the timing of Reeva's last meal. Expert evidence suggests that she last ate two hours before the shooting. I the media it has been suggested that she hay have been using diet pills and could this be the reason that she still had vegetable matter in her stomach when she died, given that OP states they also ate at 7 pm.

Question: how do diet pills affect gastric motility?

I would have thought that diet pills increase gastric transit time, therefore it would more likely that she ate closer to the shooting time.

How about:

They have dinner, they go upstairs. Reeva's does her yoga. OP is on the bed. Then they have sex. Afterwards Reeva is hungry, she disables the alarm and goes downstairs to fix a snack. On the way down OP asks her to move the fans and she says no, popping downstairs, disobeying him. Cue OP in a bad mood. He does the bloody fans himself. It takes him a few minutes, because they're awkward for him, which is why he had asked Reeva to do it. So he picks up his phone and is just about to look at some porn. Reeva comes back upstairs, having eaten a snack. What are you doing, she askes him. He refuses to answer and is evasive. She grabs his phone, they tussle lightly. Reeva is surprised, initially thinking this was a joke and suspicious at the resposne she has evoked in OP, she escapes with both phones to the bathroom. There she discovers that he has been looking at porn and is becoming more and more upset and disappointed. They argue.

He is threatening her through the bathroom door. Get the fuck out of my house. She won't because she knows she doesn't have safe passage, she starts to feel scared and intimidated. She screams for help.

Why doesn't she use her phone to call for help? Maybe she was threatening him with that when he shot her. Maybe she didn't want to go through with phoning the police because she knew it would be devastating for his career. He kept telling her not to call anyone, he tries to plead with her not to. She is upset, angry and silent. She refused to engage with OP which he interprets as her using her mobile to make a phone call.

I put it to you that is why he shot her. To prevent her calling the police.

She didn't know how angry he was, how volatile he was and underestimated how impulsive and violent he was.

He didn't check the house for her, because he knew all along that it was her in there.

After he opened the door, correct me if I'm wrong, but the first thing he mentions is checking her phone which he cannot access because of the pass code. He wanted to check that she hadn't spoken to anyone.

He opens the bathroom window and cries for help, at the same time providing a reason for believing there was an intruder.

What do you think?

(I also have poor neglected children and husband right now m'lady)

LookingThroughTheFog · 15/04/2014 10:33

I think Pistorius answered that one, Free, saying that there was more room on the bathroom side of the bed.

Animation · 15/04/2014 10:34

"I'm not sure Nel is that amazing and incisive."

Yes I've been thinking that. I know his methods are random in their focus but I think this could be counter productive and leave everyone confused.Confused

homebythesea · 15/04/2014 10:34

Marking place- just seen some chat about a possible change of plea?

FreeLikeABird · 15/04/2014 10:34

So Reeva sandals were on the left but she slept on the right.

Where were OP legs?

Which side of the bed was the gun?

BeCool · 15/04/2014 10:38

but if it is concluded that he did not know it was Reeva, is he then completely free?
No it can still be murder if they can prove intent to kill (or cause GBH?).
If you intend to kill Person A and you kill Person B it is murder.

Then if that fails there is a 'lessor' charge of culpable homicide - (manslaughter). So if he behaved recklessly and caused a death he would be guilty of culpable homicide. I believe there are 2 degrees of this charge depending on intention??

UNLESS he can show he was acting in self defence - and that is what OP is trying to do and why he is being so vague.

That is why OP won't say why he was shooting the toilet door - why he has said it was an accident and he wasn't trying to shoot the intruder.

But there was no intruder so I can't imagine at all that he will succeed arguing self defense. It is all the more galling as OP was the aggressor and it was Reeva that needed to be defended.

LookingThroughTheFog · 15/04/2014 10:39

According to Pistorius, Free, Reeva was on the balcony side, he was on the bathroom side. His gun was on the bathroom side. It's not clear where his legs were.

BeCool · 15/04/2014 10:40

Frontier of course it is possible but how likely would it be OP would get grumpy and look at pron AFTER sex? Usually it is quite a relaxant?

Chipstick10 · 15/04/2014 10:41

So transparent. As soon as his defence are in the seat he uses words like vulnerable, helpless, terror

Outofnappies · 15/04/2014 10:41

Thank you for your explanation BeCool.

OneStepCloser · 15/04/2014 10:42

Hang on, two photos of the jeans and duvet? One inside out, one the right way? Then neither can be used in evidence, surely?

OneStepCloser · 15/04/2014 10:43

I dont believe trying to re-create the scream is a good idea, there are some things that cannot be re-created.

FreeLikeABird · 15/04/2014 10:44

Thanks looking, here are some tweets about his legs -

@barrybateman: #OscarTrial we are looking at a picture of the floor on the right side of the bed where Oscar’s iPad was lying. BB

@barrybateman: #OscarTrial the iPad and its cover are lying separately. BB

@barrybateman: #OscarTrial also on the floor is a grey vest - the one which was placed on top of his prosthetic legs. BB

@barrybateman: #OscarTrial Pistorius: as a habit, I place the cloths I’ve been wearing over my prosthetic legs. BB

FreeLikeABird · 15/04/2014 10:47

Onestep your right, how can they be used, something not right about the jeans.

Chipstick10 · 15/04/2014 10:48

I don't get the jeans thing at all. What am I missing.

FreeLikeABird · 15/04/2014 10:51

The only thing they can do with the jeans, is find which picture was taken first, they did this with other things like Reevas phone, they checked times and date on the pictures.
I don't know that's just thrown the whole jeans aspect up in the air now.

FreeLikeABird · 15/04/2014 10:54

Mr Nel showed a picture of the jeans inside out, Mr Roux has just show a picture of the jeans not inside out, so were the jeans inside out or not and who changed them.

Madcatgirl · 15/04/2014 10:55

Well I'm more confused than ever!

Interesting the judge asking about the door reconstruction, OP said that the farm wasn't correct didn't he?

Also the card "today is a good day to tell you I love you". Wow, that's pretty much done with the argument that she was not seeing this as a longer relationship.

My gut feeling right now is he's going to walk because of shoddy police work, shoddy reconstruction of the loo and Nel suddenly dropping him. I was expecting this to go on until end of Thursday!

homebythesea · 15/04/2014 10:56

Reading out the valentines card- I seem to have something in my eye.

A reminder that a young woman with lots to live for died.

LookingThroughTheFog · 15/04/2014 10:56

Chipstick, from what I understand, the jeans are interesting because they are out of order with the rest of her clothes. Pistorius says he used them to cover the LED, which is why. This is why it was too dark to see in the room.

If they were not moved for this purpose, it might be an indication that Reeva was dressing to leave (or it might be for another reason).

The possition in relation to the duvet is interesting, because his testimony is that she was under the duvet when he woke, and when he last saw her.

If the jeans were under the duvet, it may look as though he didn't actually put them over the LED (so there may have been light enough to see her). If they were on top, it might suggest the duvet hadn't been on the bed when he approached the bathroom with a gun (so he may have been able to see the bed was empty).

They can't say for sure, because in the pictures, the jeans appear to have been moved around by the police - in some pictures they're inside out and underneath, in others they're the right way in and so forth.

So the jeans cannot be used to piece together the reconstruction.

I think that's the relevance, anyhow.

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