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Oscar Pistorius trial part 3

999 replies

JillJ72 · 12/04/2014 19:08

Hiya,

Thread 1 here - www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/2022610-Oscar-Pistorius-trial

Thread 2 here - www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/2049921-Oscar-Pistorius-trial-part-2

To continue our respectful, open, interesting discussion.

OP posts:
Roussette · 12/04/2014 22:52

I think Reeva's mother is so brave. She has said she is Reeva's voice and will sit there and take everything on behalf of her daughter. Brave brave lady. One can only imagine what she is going through. Her daughter has been murdered whatever the motive.

StampyIsMyBoyfriend · 12/04/2014 22:52

I think reeva was scared after an argument... but I'd like to think she had no idea he'd shoot through the door. From what I've read & heard, the first shot was to her hip, so I dread to think she might have been shocked & in pain :(

The fact she had injuries to her arm & hand, suggest she tried to shield herself, which really makes me sad :(

After that, without being graphic... there was a head wound that would have ended her life... and her suffering, very quickly.

LouiseBrooks · 12/04/2014 22:52

his shoulder injury forced him to sleep on the opposite side of the bed. All part of the setting the foundation for the defence that I mentioned on previous threads

But didn't Nel show that if he Reeva was on OP's normal side of the bed, he should have been more likely, not less, to hear her get out of bed as she should have been closer to him? (Unless she got out on "his" side)

Sorry, can you briefly repost what you mean about the setting the foundation? I must have missed it and there are so many posts to trawl though.

onedev · 12/04/2014 22:52

He shot to kill her through rage or whatever - all the rest is to try to avoid jail (which I believe he'll do, but doesn't mean he's not guilty).

StackALee · 12/04/2014 22:58

This is the bit that confuses me Louise,

'PISTORIUS: My lady, that's the moment that everything changed. I thought that there was a burglar gaining entrance in my home. I was I was on the side of the room where you first had to cross the passage, which leads to the which leads to the bathroom.'

Then he talks about having to feel his way along the bed to get back tomhis gun which was under the bed on the side near the window. If he was by the window then he was just a couple of feet from the bed, no need to feel his way. Actually what he has said is he was holding reeva's jeans which he had picked up from the floor to put on the led light.

Where was the led light? Which side of the room?
Where did he pick up reeva's jeans from?

StackALee · 12/04/2014 22:59

Sorry, the ran with it up bit, he is talking about his hand. Presumably in case he bumped into things.

emotionsecho · 12/04/2014 23:00

On the male/female split regarding guilt or innocence, my DH is firmly on the side that he is guilty and he has, like me, listened to the trial and evidence. I started off thinking terrible accident/mistaken identity, but have come round to guilty by virtue of the evidence I have heard, especially this last week. However, as soon as OP starts weeping and crying I feel a bit sorry for him and start to waver, cue teasing from DH because I am quite a "tough" person normally. Funnily enough my DH has gone "guilty" on all the recent high profile cases, when I commented that he doesn't have a very high opinion of his fellow men his response was "no, I don't, I know what they can do."

AnyaKnowIt · 12/04/2014 23:00

So does that mean reeva was on the same side of the bed as the gun?

LouiseBrooks · 12/04/2014 23:04

Thanks StackALee

Was the LED light on the tv? He said something to Nel about he was facing the tv and was very particular (and very confident too) about exactly where he was standing. Mind you, he was only describing his bedroom really which should be easy enough. I couldn't see the tv on the photos.

I really really wish there was a reconstruction. Is it only on tv dramas that they do that?

Madcatgirl · 12/04/2014 23:08

Adding to the man v's woman, guilty not guilty thing. My dh is convinced it was all a terrible accident, I'm on the fence and my niece is convinced he's innocent. (She's been staying with us.)

emotionsecho · 12/04/2014 23:08

Anya that's how I read it which is why I cannot believe he did not realise she wasn't there.

StackALee · 12/04/2014 23:08

The Led light was on an amplifier.

All the pictures I have seen have had images with the gun under his side of the bed, hence me thinking he means he walked from the bathroom side of the room to his side of the bed by the windows.

StackALee · 12/04/2014 23:12

Although I am a bit confused, as are some news reports... When the prosecution say 'right side of the bed' they mean the right if you are standing at the foot end and looking at the bed. Some newspapers seem to have reported that he retrieved the gun from the left hand side of the bed, but I think they mean if you are lying in the bed then left hand would be to your left. If that makes sense.

I don't think the gun was under reeva's side.

StackALee · 12/04/2014 23:13

At least not in his version.

When Nel asked him about where his iPad was, OP said it was on the right side, meaning his side. Near the window.

emotionsecho · 12/04/2014 23:18

Also one other thing concering me is that the autopsy report stated Reeva had bruising on her not related to the shooting, therefore did they have a violent/physical argument backing up the neighbours version of the shouting and screaming? or are they oldish bruises from everyday clumsiness?

At the moment, I just can't believe his version of events.

Next week should be interesting and I hope it clears up some of the things raised on this thread (I was surprised when some of the things mentioned on here earlier in the week came up in the cross examination the next day!).

StackALee · 12/04/2014 23:26

Just found photo E61 which shows the amp/stereo were facing the bed, so he would have walked towards the facing wall (facing the bed), he says he picked the jeans up from about where the are in the photo but can't remember if he put them on the amp as that was the point he heard the noise.

LouiseBrooks · 12/04/2014 23:28

Surely they could tell if the bruises were old or fresh?

Incidentally, one thing that no one seems to mention is the dogs. OP has two dogs yet not one witness mentions them barking. Regardless of whether OP is telling the truth or not, surely the dogs would have gone bonkers, with all the shooting and shouting? Is it seriously possible that no one heard them?

Roussette · 12/04/2014 23:30

Agreed Louise. Which leads us to believe the altercation was in house and not from an intruder outside.

GoshAnneGorilla · 12/04/2014 23:35

With regards to the shoulder injury, one of his whatsapps said "Couldn't train, my shoulder's stuffed" and in the crime scene photo of him, that shoulder has tape on it.

Martyn Rooney wasn't on the massive list of state witnesses, yet he was staying with OP for weeks just days before it happened. He would appear to have been supportive of OP, as about 6 months after the shooting, he tweeted something like "Watching Leonardo Di Caprio's awful SA accent in Blood Diamond and thinking of happier times with OP" I wonder if he will be a defence witness?

One other thing, I find it interesting that there is a set sentence for murder in SA - 25 years until parole, as in the UK it's much more at the judge's discretion and rightly so, IMO.

LouiseBrooks · 12/04/2014 23:42

Roussette, well we know there was actually no intruder but why didn't the dogs bark anyway? With all the noise? Even if only because of the shooting? I know OP has said they weren't very good guard dogs but even the dogs we had at home (soppy, domestic types) would have barked like loonies at loud bangs.

(Or have I missed your point?)

emotionsecho · 12/04/2014 23:43

Re the bruises Louise I would have thought they could tell but I don't recall them being explained. I do know they argued extensively over the cause of the bruising on her back and some of the other bruises which were attributed to bullet fragments.

PD6966 · 12/04/2014 23:46

Emotionsecho - my thoughts are very similar; I was thinking OP was angry with RS after he awoke to find she'd disabled the alarm (first sensor at top of stairs) from inside the bedroom in order to get a drink and then a quick snack from downstairs (thinking about the pathologist's report about her stomach contents being approx 2hrs old) whilst neglecting to make the windows in the bedroom secure as he said he'd asked.
I think she put on a vest top and shorts to go downstairs, as wouldn't she have been most likely naked if they were both in bed together on a hot night? (also OP subsequently told Nell he 'couldn't remember' disabling the alarm before carrying her dead body downstairs). I think OP woke up after she came back into the bedroom, an argument ensued as per the testimonies from several neighbours and it escalated to the point that he became threatening, aggressive and controlling; she locked herself in the toilet, refused to come out when he threatened her and he pulled the trigger 'before thinking'.
Also, has he addressed where he went/what he did in the minutes he went back upstairs after taking her body downstairs when the neighbour came?

lougle · 12/04/2014 23:54

I'm watching the coverage. I can't help feeling he's innocent. His story isn't polished enough to be a lie, IMO. He can afford the best defence. I think if he was guilty he would have a much better 'story'.

My Dad, by contrast, thinks he's guilty as can be...but I think he just thinks he's an arrogant man and it stands to reason that he did it.

My DH is 'on the fence' and thinks possibly innocent.

Either way, it's several lives destroyed.

emotionsecho · 12/04/2014 23:56

No PD6966 they haven't mentioned that yet, I am sure Nel will next week, maybe OP moved the stuff in the bedroom and not the police?

AmIthatSpringy · 12/04/2014 23:58

Marking my place, but re the bruises - I thought they were explained as being from wood splinters on the front, and the magazine rack on the back.

I also thought he had said he had picked out a bracelet and they were going on Valentine's day to pick it up.

I don't think Louise is a lone voice either, to the poster who mentioned it - sorry, too many posts to check.

I think that are a few of us who are not proclaiming "definitely guilty" and looking at things from both angles.

I have said many times that even though my views are swinging like a pendulum, I'm not saying definitely anything until I've heard all the evidence. We haven't had the defence case yet.

Finally, my old father, who is definitely a "Hang em high" type surprised me today. He asked if I had following the case and said that he was either an accomplished actor, or had made a stupid mistake.

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