Oscar Pistorius trial part 3

[JillJ72]

Hiya,

Thread 1 here - www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/2022610-Oscar-Pistorius-trial

Thread 2 here - www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/2049921-Oscar-Pistorius-trial-part-2

To continue our respectful, open, interesting discussion.

But Stack. The defence witnesses haven't spoken yet so I think it would be a bit premature to make a decision before half the evidence had been heard.

He had good hearing though.

He heard the window open while he was dealing with the fans. Over the noise of the fans that prevented him from hearing someone on the bed a few meters away moving he heard the window.

Didn't hear anyone come into the bathroom, jump in etc.

Then after shouting numerous warnings when he went silent and was advancing down the passageway he heard the toilet door close or be kicked shut.

So up to that point was Ms Steenkamp just standing in the toilet in the dark?
Even if she'd missed his whispered call the police as she was initially in the loo she would have heard him shouting and screaming for the intruders to get out of his house
Why when everything went silent would she choose to go back into the toilet and lock the door?
If I was having a wee and heard a commotion I might stay where I was but he says he heard the door close after he had shouted the numerous warnings and had become silent.

Ms Steenkamp aside as awful as that is to say.

If an intruder had entered your property and having heard warnings and shouting they had decided to lock themselves in the loo. Decided that actually the game was up. Wanted to get as far away as possible from the roaring madman. How is deciding to pull the trigger four times in that situation any better for Pistorius.

I know every gun he touches magically discharges itself but....

Ronald sometimes how long you've been together before you talk more serious things and spend 'lavishly' on that person can be a surprise to others, indeed to oneself! DH and I talked about getting a home together 2 months after meeting (we didn't for much longer, for financial reasons), and he bought me a beautiful quilted velvet Chinese jacket that was an eye-watering sum on his salary - and swore me not to tell his mum or dad because they'd have something to say. (I still have the jacket, alas I am not svelte as I was, but I still like to stroke it)

bracelet this seems unclear to me but a weird thing to judge or ask

PISTORIUS: I had bought Reeva a bracelet from a designer that she liked earlier in the year. And I hadn't made plans for the 14th.

here

I don't get the shoulder injury thing at all. ' But because of my shoulder injury I couldn't lie on my right shoulder, so for a couple of weeks I had been sleeping on and off on the left-hand side of the bed'

Eh?

To go back to the male/female guilty verdicts....

DH from day one has said OP is guilty. He works away & doesn't read the news, yet is so sure.

I'm the opposite, I've been reading anything I can find, and I've gone full circle & back again.

"At the moment I would say the evidence presented so far would be enough to tip anyone presuming innocence over into the 'looking a bit guilty actually' category."

StackALee well of course it might, because so far we have had almost entirely prosecution evidence. But since I'm definitely not convinced now I can't imagine that I'd think him guilty once the defence have had their go.

I know I could be wrong. I have wondered vaguely if he maybe tried to shoot the lock off the door but I think, on the whole, that he's telling the truth. Having been burgled 3 times and been terrified out of my wits on another occasion by a phantom burglar, I can believe he could have panicked that much. But of course that's because I'm relating his story to my personal experience.

That doesn't mean I don't think he's a self centre arse with a sense of entitlement but I suspect most top sportsmen are (just without guns.) I also think he's lying about the minor gun charges and was foolish to do so.

Also, am a bit confused about where he was when he heard the noise of the window and how far he needed to go to get his gun? If the fans were where he claims they were and it was pitch black, wouldn't they have been in the way?

Ah hang on, found it

'And the first thing that ran through my mind is that I needed to arm myself, that I needed to protect Reeva and I, that I need to get my gun. And then I was looking down the passage, scared that the person was going to come out. I rushed as quickly as I could. I couldn't see anything in the room.

I ran with it up in front of me. At times touching the floor and then when I got to my bed I led my way along the side of my bed and I grabbed my -- my firearm from underneath the bed and it had a canvas holster on it. I immediately took it out of the holster.'

So he had to go back along the end of the bed to the side by the window to get his gun (after moving the still running fans into the position he claimed on Friday - where the duvet ended up through police tampering) in the pitch black on his stumps.

No wonder there are so many questions about his version of events.

I get the bed thing. I always sleep turned on my side, so if I'm on the left of the bed I sleep my left hand side, if I'm on the right hand side of a bed I would automatically lie on my right hand side. I do switch sides if dh is away.

I've just been looking at the images of the door and the shots aren't grouped around the lock, but a sort of line from left to right well below the lock.

I really don't know, I really don't. I do wonder though why they weren't at it like rabbits though? Unless they were waiting for marriage, given their strong faiths.

Someone mentioned about them looking at houses and that being premature, I would disagree dh and I were engaged after 6 weeks and living together after four months.

'I shouted to Reeva to get on the floor. I shouted for her to phone the police. I screamed at the people to get out. So I made my way down the passage, constantly aware that the threat to these people or persons could come at me at any time. I didn't have my legs on.

Just before I got to the wall of the where the tiles start in the bathroom I stopped shouting because I was worried if the person knew where I was, I put my head around the corner, that I could get shot. And just before I got to the just before I got to the passage of the bathroom I heard a door slam'

So he shouted for her to get on the floor. If his version is correct surely she would have done that!

Presumably he couldn't lie on a particular side because of his shoulder ?

Stampy why is your DH so sure, especially if he's not following the news and therefore the evidence? A lot of people have dismissed OP's story from day one as being impossible and I've noticed that a lot of them (no offence here to your DH) don't really know that much about the case. They've made their minds up that the story is impossible and that's it.

See the bed thing, I still don't get. I sleep omy side but I really don't care which way I am facing so I can sleep on whichever side. Want and face whichever side I like. Did pistorius have a thing where he had to be lying looking out of the bed? He says he only slept on the other side 'from time to time' so it doesn't sound like he was that bothered about having to be looking away from the bed or into the bed.

Weird.

I firmly believe he's guilty - he shot to kill, whether Reeva or someone else & nothing in his evidence proves he didn't know it was Reeva.

I believe he's sorry that she is now dead but at the time he was full of adrenaline (or whatever) & was determined to kill.

Yes, if his left shoulder was injured then he might risk knocking Reeva with it if he slept on his usual side.

OP has handled quite nicely, his shoulder injury forced him to sleep on the opposite side of the bed. All part of the setting the foundation for the defence that I mentioned on previous threads.

I would say, I wouldn't like to be a member of a jury having to make a decision. It's all so flawed because every one of us would go on previous experiences, personal and gut feelings. And - on this - this responsibility rests on one female judge, doesnt it??

I want to be proved wrong. Very much. I dread to think that Reeva knew what befell her.

Hiya ,nothing to add but want to keep this thread on my active list ready for Monday .

Again, the bed thing. He couldn't lie on his right shoulder so he had to swap sides. Clearly he must have a thing about sleeping looking out of the bed but if it was me I would have been concerned about having the right shoulder hit by my bed companion so I would have slept on the other side on my left shoulder facing the centre of the bed where no one could get my right shoulder.

Louise I can't really quantify... DH' s argument as to why is he guilty.... is why is he not!?

All the men I have spoken to have said he is guilty...okay that is only about 20...so a massive decisive bunch

They all cite the ...made sure she was safe...got her secured...asked her if she heard the noise

Once that had happened none of them are definite that they wouldn't have put themselves or kept themselves in the line of danger from the intruder in order to be the hurdle the intruder would have to pass through before getting to Ms SteenkAmp

Interesting on the shoulder thing. I had a shoulder injury. I could just NOT sleep on one particular side. It was impossible.

So he had to go back along the end of the bed to the side by the window to get his gun

But wasn't he already on the side by the window? I thought he'd just brought the fans in and was standing by the window still?. Am I not understanding what you mean?

*I ran with it up in front of me. At times touching the floor and then when I got to my bed I led my way along the side of my bed and I grabbed my -- my firearm"

Ran with what up in front of him - I thought he meant the gun?

I am so confused by all of this. I want a reconstruction!

I also think he definitely shot to kill.

I can't sleep facing into the bed, hence the side thing and I do wonder if it's the same for him. I don't like feeling closed in and turning into the middle of the bed would make me feel a bit claustrophobic, it's possible that OP feels the same?

I keep thinking about Reeva though, I just hope she didn't know it was him and thought it was burglars shooting at her. The poor, poor thing. Her mother is so very brave too, sitting there day after day and hearing all those awful moments again and again.