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Oscar Pistorius trial part 3

999 replies

JillJ72 · 12/04/2014 19:08

Hiya,

Thread 1 here - www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/2022610-Oscar-Pistorius-trial

Thread 2 here - www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/2049921-Oscar-Pistorius-trial-part-2

To continue our respectful, open, interesting discussion.

OP posts:
emotionsecho · 14/04/2014 21:05

Also OP, after Nel asked how the intruder would leave the house, said through the toilet window and when Nel queried the two storey drop, OP said down a ladder - so now we have a ladder at the bathroom window for ingress to the bathroom and a ladder at the toilet window for egress from the toilet.

I think the opening of the window is a red herring.

Bonnielangbird · 14/04/2014 21:06

I believe he said it dawned on him once he had checked bed/floor etc that it was Reeva in the toilet, then after putting on his prosthetics, there was absolutely no reason whatsoever to take the gun back with him. Until he had seen her though he would not know for sure that he wasn't correct in his initial thought that it was an intruder. Wouldn't it be more suspicious to go so quickly from 'a definite intruder' to 'no intruder' without seeing what had happened with his own eyes. I think it's key to know when he said he knew.

Hillwalker · 14/04/2014 21:07

Did he really not have his legs on the whole time he was facing an intruder, shooting, going on to the balcony, moving the fan, opening the curtains, all while holding a gun? He has said he needs one hand to balance when on stumps. Would he not have put his legs on to shoot? After all, his practices at the range had all been while wearing his legs. Do we only have his word for it that he was without legs, to make it seem he acted with urgency? To me, would not make sense to go into physically dangerous and demanding situation at such a disadvantage. My feeling is they never went to bed/sleep at all. They were up making love then ate, then they argued, maybe because of whatever he was looking at on his phone. She fled to the only lockable room and he tried to shoot the lock out but ended up killing her.

voiceofgodot · 14/04/2014 21:08

If OP is lying, then I think he opened the window. It's such a major piece of evidence to back up his version, that he thought he heard an intruder and the window was opened.

StackALee · 14/04/2014 21:09

We're the clothes Reeva did yoga in, in her bag?
Did she then change into jeans?
Have there been any questions about what she was wearing at different points f the night, did she shower etc.

LookingThroughTheFog · 14/04/2014 21:09

Do we only have his word for it that he was without legs

No, it's been shown by a prosecution expert that he was not wearing his legs when he shot.

However, the prosecution expert also demonstrated that he was unlikely to have been wearing his legs when he used the cricket bat, which Pistorius says he was.

It'll be interesting to see what the defence experts say in regards to this.

SauceForTheGander · 14/04/2014 21:11

I don't think they had a good evening. I imagine it had to be a long tense fight rather than something they woke up to. I think Reeva cancelled plans with friends that night and asked Oscar to do the same so they could have a pre valentines evening but also to have important chat about where relationship was going and to some of oscars buttons were pushed.

Nerf · 14/04/2014 21:12

I can't find where the bat was found, sorry. Just saw a photo of it in the evidence at the start.

FreeLikeABird · 14/04/2014 21:12

@barrybateman: #OscarTrial Nel moves on to the moments Pistorius moved up the passage to the bathroom. BB

@barrybateman: #OscarTrial Pistorius shows the court that when he approached the court his arm was not extended up in front of him, but bent and low down.

@barrybateman: #OscarTrial Pistorius explains that his right elbow was at his side, not extended in front of him. BB

@barrybateman: #OscarTrial when Pistorius got to the bathroom entrance he peered inside. He could see a little bit of light. BB

@barrybateman: #OscarTrial walking down the passage Pistorius says he continued to shout for the intruders to get out and for Reeva to call the police. BB

@barrybateman: #OscarTrial Pistorius breaks down as he describes shouting “get the fuck out of my house”. BB

@barrybateman: #OscarTrial Nel asking what exactly Pistorius said to Reeva - call the police?
Oscar: I think thats what I said. BB

@barrybateman: #OscarTrial Nel: you just whispered to her, why start shouting?
Oscar: I was now in a safe place between intruders and Reeva. BB

@barrybateman: #OscarTrial Pistorius: I hoped this person (intruder) would think that there is someone else in the house calling the police. BB

@barrybateman: #OscarTrial Pistorius says he never extended his arm - kept close to him so no one could grab his firearm. BB

@barrybateman: #OscarTrial Pistorius the firearm was never pointed in the same direction, it was moving as I moved… BB

@barrybateman: #OscarTrial Pistorius edged his way along the cupboard to the point where he could see into the bathroom. BB

@barrybateman: #OscarTrial Pistorius peered into the bathroom to check whether someone was waiting to ambush him. Then stepped back. BB

@barrybateman: #OscarTrial Pistorius described his fear when in the bathroom, considering what could happen to he and Reeva… BB

@barrybateman: #OscarTrial Pistorius I then heard a sound like wood moving, like the door was being opened.
Nel interrogates this sound. BB

@barrybateman: #OscarTrial Pistorius: as I heard the noise I fired. I fired before I could see the door. BB

Here is some of today's, for anyone who is not on twitter.
Bits about leading up the passage to the bathroom.

RonaldMcDonald · 14/04/2014 21:13

or alternately he was kneeling when he fired his weapon

LookingThroughTheFog · 14/04/2014 21:15

That's true, Ronald.

FreeLikeABird · 14/04/2014 21:15

Thanks nerf I will have a look see if I can find anything about the bat.

emotionsecho · 14/04/2014 21:16

I am wondering how OP's defence are going to cover OP changing his defence and then claiming two different defences, I think this plays into his inability to accept responsibility for anything.

Bonnielangbird · 14/04/2014 21:17

Bonnie - I'm fascinated by the fact the written transcripts tell a different story to listening to the testimony Me too, although Im reading one bit thinking one thing, and then another thinking something else. Interestingly, the 'get the fuck out of my house' bit made me think that's exactly what I would expect someone to shout to an intruder. But then followed by the thought, 'but that's what could have been said in an argument'. I would need to hear him say the words I think to have an opinion on who he was talking to.

But reading other bits makes me think he is telling the truth. I wonder how much the judge goes by what she sees (body language etc) compared to what she hears.

Hillwalker · 14/04/2014 21:17

Yes, I think he opened the window. Didn't he go back upstairs after Reeva died downstairs?

RonaldMcDonald · 14/04/2014 21:19

Also

we keep assuming that all the whacks on the bathroom door from the cricket bat came after the shots

could he not have tried the cricket bat to get her out
further lost his rag
went and got his gun
shot and killed her

smashed rest of door down with cricket bat

FreeLikeABird · 14/04/2014 21:20

Hillwalker - he only went back upstairs when the paramedics or police (not sure which) asked if there was any ID for Reeva, he then went up got her handbag and brought it back down.

Madcatgirl · 14/04/2014 21:22

Again, the prosecution experts said the shots to the door came firs.

I've not seen most of today's stuff, going to watch the round up now.

RonaldMcDonald · 14/04/2014 21:23

By all accounts OP had a very fiery relationship with first girlfriend

dunno if that means anything but we seem to want a course of behaviour to flow within MN
i certainly do

FreeLikeABird · 14/04/2014 21:24

It was said by experts that the shots did come first. Can't remember there explanation but it was said and was said why they knew this.

emotionsecho · 14/04/2014 21:25

Thanks, Free, I got confused hearing it on the TV as to when/where the shouts were. This would also explain the shouts/screams the neighbours claim to have heard.

Still think he is guilty though, but keen to hear the re-direct and the other defence witnesses and experts.

On another note about him telling Reeva, either quiely or shouting to call the police and her not responding at all, my DH commented that no way would I keep quiet and I agree I am way too mouthy, always far too much too say!

RonaldMcDonald · 14/04/2014 21:25

I think that there were splinters on Ms Steenkamp and it was thought that it was a bullet hole that helped the bat break through the door

that does not mean that it was the first time that the bat had been used on the door or the exact sequence

PD6966 · 14/04/2014 21:26

Emotionsecho be very interesting to see how the defence deal with OP change in defence. I cannot believe that in a year, OP hasn't a complete understanding of his 'choices' of murder, putative private-defence etc. He's tailoring his plea to the evidence?!

Bonnielangbird · 14/04/2014 21:27

Interesting points ronald, much more to think about than just the obvious.

I would be interested to know people's views once Roux has questioned OP (assuming he does). Do you remember the part where the detective was showing how OP couldn't be wearing his prosthetics when he hit the door with the bat. There was an audible gasp as people thought OP was therefore lying. But then Roux got stuck in and showed the total opposite by making him try to hit the door on his knees. Just an example that makes me think there is so much more left to cover that may reveal far more than we have heard so far.

RonaldMcDonald · 14/04/2014 21:27

Dr Stipp said that OP was also upstairs for a period of time before the ambulance arrived
He was very concerned about this as he was worried that there was a firearm up there and that OP might harm himself