Oscar Pistorius trial part 3

[JillJ72]

Hiya,

Thread 1 here - www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/2022610-Oscar-Pistorius-trial

Thread 2 here - www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/2049921-Oscar-Pistorius-trial-part-2

To continue our respectful, open, interesting discussion.

I think he added the window slamming into the frame as he was concerned that it would be shown that it wouldn't be able to be heard over the sound of the fans otherwise

I think I sounds unlikely that he would not have mentioned this at bail as it is such clear evidence and he has repeatedly corrected Nel over it.
Maybe not though

It is also interesting that he now says he ran for his gun
previously he made clear he moved gingerly as he is so unstable on his stumps and was using his hands to help
Ironically if he had said he was stable on his stumps it would make it easier to believe that he ran to the bed grabbed the gun and headed to the passage
The necessity of his use of hands to steady himself made me think that there was no way he could have been on the side of the bed and not known Ms Steenkamp was there
I guess I am asking how steady he really is on his stumps....although I know that sounds all wrong

Still Ms Steenkamp had to, at some point, pass completely silently nearby him, not touching him on the way past, to walk unseen down the passageway
Without a - just popping to the loo, back in a minute, you okay baba? on the way
Silently and stealthily until she decided to noisily open a window with such force that it banged into the frame at the back

Not sure.
I think Nel is having a shocker

Not asking Reeva if she also heard the window is, to me, unbelievable. She was right next to him, awake - he failed to either discuss the noise with her, or verify that the noise wasn't made by her.

In fact, dh and I were in bed on Sat night, and I could hear a noise -the first thing I said to dh was 'can you hear that?' - it turned out to be from next door. But who in their right mind wouldn't do that? Who wouldn't say to their partner 'did you hear that?' - but instead pick up gun and charge down a corridor and shoot through a door? Inconceivable. I can't believe the judge will buy it.

I wouldn't have thought someone was in the house as the alarm was on and he had already closed the patio doors

If I heard him shouting, "get out of my fucking house"

I would immediately be shouting Oscarrr???

I think he used the cricket bat on the bedroom door
with him getting more and more angry
as he was breaking through the bedroom door
she headed for the toilet
he was roaring
get out of my fucking house
grabbed gun and shot at the lock in anger to get her out
killed her

OMG - it is like Nel is reading this thread

I also think he shouted that at Reeva. Chilling.

But Ronald, that's what you would do. I don't often speak to dh at night and at the beginning of our relationship wouldn't have said anything about using the loo, or needing a wee etc. I just don't see, if different actions are all reasonable, how they prove anything.

Crazee I suppose that version is plausible. It's possible.

I still don't think it's what happened though.

Stack yes, I hadn't considered that - the gunshots show the cricket bat was used after the door was shot - but nothing to say it wasn't used before as well.

to be honest, I doubt that he has the capacity to think about things like the sounds of the fans and so on when he was first giving his version of events, or even in the re-telling.

He's possibly told one big lie and is, as the prosecution has said, now tayloring his evidence to try and fit that lie. He's not that clever, I doubt that many people are.

As the evidence stands now it just sounds very much like he has lied to cover up his stupidity.

Ronald in OP version, not only would RS have had to stealthily walked past OP so as for him not to notice, she took her phone with her (which most people have plugged in, on charge during the night, so where was it?), put a vest top and shorts on (hot night, new relationship = naked bodies? Or have I missed evidence about how they normally slept?).
Please explain the cricket bat on the door thoughts as don't properly understand scenario...did see the marks on bedroom door yesterday though.

This is the thing for me -from Reeva's POV, if you were both awake, and faffing about, then you get up (in complete silence - another dubious point for me), open window and go into the loo. Suddenly, Oscar comes roaring down the corridor 'get the fuck out of my house' - you'd SO say 'It's me, you dick!' Because you'd know that there was no intruder in there.

I go through moments of thinking

"This is fucking ridiculous"

sometimes I cannot understand how he didn't know it was her

I didn't say it was horrendous that his testimony was being ripped apart I said it was horrendous to listen to it being ripped apart but also that it was absolutely right and necessary that it happens. Partly why I'm finding it so difficult to listen to is that the more he falls apart, the more likely it becomes that he is lying and the more likely it is that Reeva knew exactly what was happening that night.

But nerf Oscar said Reeva did speak. And then nothing else at all.

Ahh I see book I misunderstood you.

is it true that OP is sitting facing away from the prosecutor?

How can that be allowed? Or is he supposed to face the judge?

Blaming his legal team again

So - is it possible that

Reeva runs into the bathroom, opens the window, calls for help

OP mocks her (this would explain the "help help" in a mans voice maybe?)

She runs into the toilet, locks it

He shoots

Or is the window a red herring?

Yes , but to me that seems normal - 'can't you sleep' then nothing seems completely ordinary. Which is why I can't see much merit in debating how likely/ unlikely that stuff is.

So, Reeva slips out to the toilet so quietly that OP cannot hear here and then for some inexplicable reason (after opening a window for no reason) slams the door of the toilet.

how many times is he going to say 'I don't know why' and 'I can't remember'?

he needs to ask, was Reeva in the habit of slamming doors for no reason?

in the middle of the night as well Stack

I agree with Ronald :

I think he used the cricket bat on the bedroom door
with him getting more and more angry
as he was breaking through the bedroom door
she headed for the toilet
he was roaring
get out of my fucking house
grabbed gun and shot at the lock in anger to get her out
killed her

YY to this. I think it's possible he didn't intend to kill her, he was just shooting the lock off. If he would just admit that, he could plead guilty to CH and get off with murder. If he continues to deny and lie, he'll be found guilty on all charges.

I think he's either been badly advised OR his counsel have told him to plead guilty to the lesser charges (inc messing around with the guns before) and he has arrogantly defied their advice and insisted on this defence. Hence his arguing with his defence team, and their not defending him right now...

Op is reminding me of James Murdoch when he was giving evidence at the select committee.

Book Sorry to appear pedantic but I was referring to how I felt (based on what you wrote), that I didn't find it horrendous to hear that level of cross-examination from Nell. I totally understand the horror in the realisation that he is most probably fabricating (most of) his evidence in light of the cross-examination and the implications for RS (gut wrenching). The circumstantial evidence from the neighbours, I feel, is hugely important in this case, not to mention a raft of other evidence.

Really awkward for Roux et al, being blamed every so often by OP for things not being in statements etc

V awkward indeed