Russia has invaded Ukraine

[ohmymimi]

Not a shot fired. Putin outwits the West and who/what will stop him getting his way?

Piglet,

What is foolish in saying that "Without the politicians and extreme nationalists steering trouble, people in Ukraine seem to get along quite well, judging by TV reports"?

Do you disagree that people get along?

Do you realise that they should have good relations with each other to live together in a free and democratic country. Otherwise the government would have to suppress the disagreement by force...

math uses argument (a) and (g) again.

There was a good program on BBC Radio 4 on Saturday - 'Russia, Ukraine and us' led by Bridget Kendall at the London School of Economics and Political Science. It's a discussion about Crimea's history, about Putin (of course!) and about ways to resolve the conflict. Here's the link: www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03y888v

Goat

It is foolish to expect people to get along when they have just invaded and occupied each other.

Piglet,

You are finally showing your colours. So if you think ethnic Ukrainian Ukrainians and ethnic Russian Ukrainians don't get along, what is your solution?

Please spell it out for me.

Goat

Your imagination has run away with you again. Are you going to call me a Nazi or a Russian-hater today?

If you can show me that I have said ethnic Ukrainian Ukrainians and ethnic Russian Ukrainians don't get along, I will send £5 to Mumsnet for charitable use.

I have made no secret of the fact that I disapprove of Russia's military invasion and occupation of Ukraine, and that in my opinion invading and occupying a neighbour does not lead to good relations.

Sadly it appears that you disagree with me on both counts.

Piglet,

You wrote:

PigletJohn Tue 11-Mar-14 14:17:00

poster foolishly saying "Without the politicians and extreme nationalists steering trouble, people in Ukraine seem to get along quite well, judging by TV reports" so I pointed out that invasion and occupation can be expected to cause ill-feeling.

So please make sure you send MN £5. I will email to check.

I said "invasion and occupation can be expected to cause ill-feeling"

only in your fevered imagination do the words "ethnic Ukrainian Ukrainians and ethnic Russian Ukrainians don't get along" appear.

Piglet,

The above, unless you don't consider ethnic Russians or Russian speaking residents of Ukraine to be Ukrainian and conflate them with occupants.

Goat

I can read the words but I don't know what you intend to convey by the way you have assembled them.

Am I to understand that you don't believe Russia has instigated am military invasion and occupation of Ukraine?

Piglet,

The media are saying threats to Russian speaking population is just propaganda, but you seen to confirm that there are ill feelings.

What kind of ell-feelings? Please explain?

Am I to understand that you don't believe Russia has instigated am military invasion and occupation of Ukraine?

You are not addressing the question. What kind of ill feelings towards Russian speaking population of Ukraine?

Have you already prepared the donation of £5 to MN?

You are not addressing the question. Am I to understand that you don't believe Russia has instigated a military invasion and occupation of Ukraine?

I already answered to your question up thread.

I can't see your answer. Was it "yes" or "no?"

Russia has occupied (to be precise, it is the process of occupying) the Autonomous Republic of Crimea, a region that up to 1954 was part of Russia but was given to Crimea by a regime that maintained its power by terror, and was never freely elected for some reason it appears really important to her/him to claim that the gift of an illegitimate regime is a matter carved in stone. It's bizarre really it seems to be the only act of the Soviet Union that commands any respect from PigletJohn.

I must confess to being a little confused PigletJohn -- do they or don't they get along? It's one thing to say an invasion, occupation, or whatever can be expected to produce ill feeling, etc., but do they or don't they in actual fact get along? And how many of them get along vs. don't get along? Does anybody get along? Does nobody get along? And how exactly do we assess 'getting along'? Are there degrees of 'getting along', where 10 is hopping in bed together and 1 is remaining on the same side of the road if they meet but only just? How is 'getting along' measured?

Clearly a referendum might answer the burning question.

The pro-Russian lobby on here cannot bring themselves to say that Russia has instigated a military invasion and occupation of the Ukraine.

Fluff, flannel and C&P do not conceal their difficulty.

I can't see your answer. Was it "yes" or "no?"

That could be a dialogue from a Gestapo interrogation scene in a WWII movie...

Oh, so you're back to calling me a Nazi are you?

You're not much good at this.

The US are threatening Russia with sanctions. The Russian response? Fine, apply sanctions, we'll stop using dollars to buy oil. If that happens China will probably follow suit.

A sensible article from the Guardian The west's do-somethings will do nothing for Ukraine

The pro US lobby here (you know who you are) can't seem to understand that the US has supported the ouster of a democratically elected president in an unlawful and unconstitutional coup and is now falling over itself lending legitimacy to the usurpers (see photo of Obama and his new best buddy Yats in the White House on BBC website) and trying to divert attention away from this act of terrorism by its right wing proxies (because that is what overthrowing the governments of sovereign states is called) by bleating about Crimea.

I haven't paid much attention to the US, so I don't know who you mean. Do please tell us.

A very sensible article (and just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you),