Jeremy Bamber - Is this the worst MoJ in British criminal history?

[HoGo1]

I watched a prog on C5 a few weeks ago re the above. I've also spent a fair bit of time researching the case (there's a mountain of docs on the 'Jeremy Bamber Forum') I have a feeling we will be hearing much more about this in the not too distant future Does anyone else think he might be innocent?

Thanks Nom.

I'm not a legal expert nor have I read extensive court documents. The whole case is very troubling I think because the process appears to be murky which makes it very hard to get at the 'truth' because it leaves so much open to reinterpretation.

Ha not remotely Gren. Some of the illogicality and myth-making around this case really irritates me though.

Put it this way, If the right person was convicted it was despite the police investigation not because of it.

And to be clear I am not convinced of JB innocence, I just think it is possible.

I don't think the facts do clearly point to his guilt. At best, it is much messier than that, and worst a dreadful injustice has been perpetrated by the Justice system.

A Narcissist or Antisocial personality type can be innocent.

A person with Schizophrenia can be innocent.

A lot of playing upon of MH stereotypes.

Now that troubles me.

What is this weird thing on Mumsnet where posters are forever being accused of being friends of whoever?

I just happen to disagree that it's all neat and obvious.

Well quite Glass and they are just two huge areas of concern around the whole debacle.

I think also that, as humans, we are very frightened by the idea that a crime might be insoluble. So in complicated cases, all sorts of neo-phrenology starts to creep in.

The psychology of the onlooker is also interesting.

FFS. So anyone who thinks he might be innocent must be one of his friends? How childish.

There are strange oddities that have yet to be explained, although I think on balance he's probably guilty.

Yes the pressure to convict (certainly back then) led to incidents with the chain of evidence and statement reliability which has resulted in innocent people being convicted and guilty people being found innocent.

Look at what happened to Colin Stagg.

Either way, bad behaviour or incompetence/corruption can cause doubt to hang around like a bad stench over whatever verdict comes in.

Quite agree Glass. It's a shame we don't have a mechanism that automatically triggers a full retrial when there is sufficient doubt about the original investigation.

I think a lot of people imagine that criminal appeals are full retrials too. Which confuses public perception.

I think he is guilty. Bottom line-Sheila could not have shot herself twice.

I dont think the OP is a friend of Jeremy. She is just a poster who has read about the case and raised concerns regarding a MoJ. Let's face it...they do happen.

From all I have read though I do not think it is the case here....no matter ow shoddy the police investigation.

I keep reading MoJ as 'Ministry of Justice' which is confusing me.

Miscarriage of Justice.

At the heart of the prosecution is a silencer that was found not by the police but by JB's extended adoptive family who it appears from witness statement disliked him for no other reason than he didn't for example join young farmers! I kid you not. The Bamber estate was worth circa 436k '85/'86 which JB would have inherited had he been acquitted. Instead it was carved up between the relatives.

The silencer supposedly containing evidence of blood and a grey hair then sat around on a cop's desk until it eventually found itself at forensic science services at Huntingdon, Cambs. By this time the grey hair had gone astray!

DNA testing was not available at the time. Instead blood group analysis was performed which is not exclusive to individuals. The analysis produced 4 readings which matched Sheila Caffells' blood group/type. It also matched Robert Boutflour's who had a hand in 'finding' the silencer. At least 10% of members on this website will share the same blood/group type as Sheila Caffell.

The QC, Geoffrey Rivlin, did not present to the jury the realistic possibility of contamination. When the judge summed up he misled the jury into thinking that the blood found in the silencer belonged exclusively to Sheila Caffell.

It stinks and imo there's no two ways it's the greatest MoJ in British criminal history!

I am afraid some of the posts on here are way off the mark eg that Sheila Caffell could not have shot herself twice. The pathologist clearly states that he could not confirm suicide or murder. Anyone interested you need to read up and draw your own conclusions. All I will say is:

MP's expenses
Fianancial crisis
Child sex abuse in church
Savile
Hillsborough
NoW hacking

The idea that the establishment are whiter than and competent is imo clearly wrong.

The silencer has always concerned me. It was some weeks until it was found and like previously stated it was found by relatives who didn't like him and had a motive for seeing him locked up.

Apparently they were determined to see him convicted from the day the bodies were found. Now whether that was just because they were convinced of his guilt and wanted to see justice or whether they wanted to inherit who knows?

The testament of his then girlfriend is damming - that he'd previously told her he was going to hire a hit man to kill them all. But why did she wait to tell the police this? Was she scared of him? Was she in shock? Or did she find out he'd been cheating on her and get revenge?

The ex girlfriend was also given immunity from her criminal past in exchange for her 'co-operation'. Had she not have 'co-operated' it would have put paid to her teaching career. Plus a 25k NoW deal if Bamber was convicted for her 'story'. Yeah it was a story alright.

The ITV docu on YouTube contains the ex-girlfriend, Julie Mugford, claiming she was not scared of him.

what do the people on the 'jeremy bamber forum' think? Are their opinions mixed?

The Jeremy Bamber forum is owned by a friend of JB's and tends to attract supporters but out of the regular posters there are a few dissidents. The UK Justice Forum is the arch rival to the Jeremy Bamber Forum so anyone interested, visit both and you will hear both sides of the story! I would recommend reading the witness statements and other documentary and photographic evidence in the archives and form your own opinions.

I followed the Bamber case from the start. I've always been very certain that he was guilty. There were numerous reasons why it seemed unlikely that his sister did it, not least of all, motive. As the article linked to by VivalaBeaver shows, the investigative journalist Bob Woffinden looked into the case and began with the belief that there had been a miscarriage of justice, and having spent a great deal of time on it, changed his mind because of the strength of the evidence against Bamber. That surely tells you something.

Just saw an article which had a picture of Sheila's foot and it's dirty and had cuts on it. Weren't her feet meant to be clean?

I do think if he was tried today he's be found not guilty.

My gut feeling is he did it but I've never seen enough evidence that if I was on the jury I'd be able to convict him. Am going to go and rread that justice forum though.

I have arguments with DD over this case because she is convinced of his innocence and me of his guilt. You can argue it both ways. I remember at the time reading an article about the twins father - heartbreaking.

I read a book by Sean Jenkins who was convicted of murdering step daughter Billie and got off (I think) when the retrial jury couldn't agree. It did cast some doubt in my mind though I still find him obnoxious.

Motive imo relates to an adoption that went awry. It's necessary to have an understanding of adoption psychology, attachment disorders and adoption reunions.

Fact is at the start of Sheila Caffell's life she was effectively rejected numerous times, or at least felt a sense of abandonment, this is likely to have caused an attachment disorder. Her adoptive mother adopted her and then as a result of this decision suffered serious depression resulting in ECT and in-patient psychiatric care. This was in 1959 when Sheila Caffell was around 2 yoa. Only weeks before the murders Sheila Caffell was reunited with her birth mother.

The prosecution claim that Jeremy Bamber was motivated by hate and greed but there's absolutely no firm evidence for this at all.

Most understand hatred and greed; not many understand adoption psychology, attachment disorders and adoption reunions so of course its easy to blame Jeremy Bamber.

The fact that Bob Woffinden has looked into the case and arrived at the same conclusion as the establishment tells me nothing other than he might be incapable of divergent thinking! No offence to Bob Woffinden.

Surprisingly Andrew Hunter, a former right wing mp, has taken up Bamber's case and is due to release a book this year. An established crime writer is also due to release a book this year. I understand both believe him to be the victim of a MoJ. My feeling is that Bamber's case will become a global news story of epic proportion later this year and rightly so if he's innocent. He went to prison at the age of 24; earlier this month he was 53.

There's little point discussing it is there? Not many of us are partial to the evidence.

I have no idea at all. It's nothing to do with me anyway.

I haven't had access to anything that isn't in the public domain.

Yes of course its something to do with you and every citizen in the UK unless you don't care about innocent people spending years in prison for crimes they haven't committed!?

I have spent a lot of time researching the case so I don't expect others who haven't to have any strong views either way.

It's not a decision you can arrive at lightly as you do need to consider, well I did, that he has been found guilty in a court of law of killing 5 innocent people including two small boys while sleeping in bed.